Matrix Games Forums

Does it ever come into play in the game? If so, does the player simply get extra supply points at Kuching or wherever, or do you eventually see the road on the map?

No. IIRC the discussions in this forum on the Ledo road, it was only completed late in the war and is not modeled in the game.

The "Burma Road" is modeled, and if you can get a (road I believe?) path from Rangoon all the way into China (I forget which bases it has to reach, but let's just say it has to be clear all the way in), then you get 5000 extra supply per day at Chungking.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No. IIRC the discussions in this forum on the Ledo road, it was only completed late in the war and is not modeled in the game.

The "Burma Road" is modeled, and if you can get a (road I believe?) path from Rangoon all the way into China (I forget which bases it has to reach, but let's just say it has to be clear all the way in), then you get 5000 extra supply per day at Chungking.

According to the manual (p. 254, section 15.8 BURMA ROAD), you have to be able to trace a clear supply path (no IJA units) from either Ledo or Rangoon to Tsuyung (a little ways inside China's western border) to receive 500 supply points a day.

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No. IIRC the discussions in this forum on the Ledo road, it was only completed late in the war and is not modeled in the game.

The "Burma Road" is modeled, and if you can get a (road I believe?) path from Rangoon all the way into China (I forget which bases it has to reach, but let's just say it has to be clear all the way in), then you get 5000 extra supply per day at Chungking.

According to the manual (p. 254, section 15.8 BURMA ROAD), you have to be able to trace a clear supply path (no IJA units) from either Ledo or Rangoon to Tsuyung (a little ways inside China's western border) to receive 500 supply points a day.

Thanks for catching that. [&:]

I meant 500 - "5000" (notice there was no comma) was a rather egregious typographical error! Sorry for getting your hopes up, Treetop. [:D]

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No. IIRC the discussions in this forum on the Ledo road, it was only completed late in the war and is not modeled in the game.

The "Burma Road" is modeled, and if you can get a (road I believe?) path from Rangoon all the way into China (I forget which bases it has to reach, but let's just say it has to be clear all the way in), then you get 5000 extra supply per day at Chungking.

According to the manual (p. 254, section 15.8 BURMA ROAD), you have to be able to trace a clear supply path (no IJA units) from either Ledo or Rangoon to Tsuyung (a little ways inside China's western border) to receive 500 supply points a day.

Ok, that's one magic road. In order to stop supply to China according to the manual, the Japanese player would have to hold Tsuyung to absolutely prevent the supply flow. Holding either Rangoon or Ledo with Tsuyung in allied hands won't do it as it would be impossible for the Japanese player to garrison enough hexes in that expanse between the two to stop the flow.

In my game with Brad, I hold all of Burma including Lashio and Myitkyina. According to the manual, I have not blocked the flow of supply because I do not hold Ledo and a clear path can be traced between Ledo and Tsuyung even if in a very roundabout way.

It is 8 hexes from Ledo to Tsuyung. Is there a limit to the number of hexes that the path must stay within? If not, then it becomes impossible to block a clear supply path without holding all three bases.

Chez

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

ORIGINAL: witpqs

No. IIRC the discussions in this forum on the Ledo road, it was only completed late in the war and is not modeled in the game.

The "Burma Road" is modeled, and if you can get a (road I believe?) path from Rangoon all the way into China (I forget which bases it has to reach, but let's just say it has to be clear all the way in), then you get 5000 extra supply per day at Chungking.

According to the manual (p. 254, section 15.8 BURMA ROAD), you have to be able to trace a clear supply path (no IJA units) from either Ledo or Rangoon to Tsuyung (a little ways inside China's western border) to receive 500 supply points a day.

Ok, that's one magic road. In order to stop supply to China according to the manual, the Japanese player would have to hold Tsuyung to absolutely prevent the supply flow. Holding either Rangoon or Ledo with Tsuyung in allied hands won't do it as it would be impossible for the Japanese player to garrison enough hexes in that expanse between the two to stop the flow.

In my game with Brad, I hold all of Burma including Lashio and Myitkyina. According to the manual, I have not blocked the flow of supply because I do not hold Ledo and a clear path can be traced between Ledo and Tsuyung even if in a very roundabout way.

It is 8 hexes from Ledo to Tsuyung. Is there a limit to the number of hexes that the path must stay within? If not, then it becomes impossible to block a clear supply path without holding all three bases.

Chez

I'm positive that an earlier thread on this topic discovered that the reference to Ledo in the manual is incorrect. Originally that is what was planned, but the Ledo road was never implmented in the final game, so you need only to cut the road from Rangoon - no supply flows from Ledo.

ORIGINAL: Dobey

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower




According to the manual (p. 254, section 15.8 BURMA ROAD), you have to be able to trace a clear supply path (no IJA units) from either Ledo or Rangoon to Tsuyung (a little ways inside China's western border) to receive 500 supply points a day.

Ok, that's one magic road. In order to stop supply to China according to the manual, the Japanese player would have to hold Tsuyung to absolutely prevent the supply flow. Holding either Rangoon or Ledo with Tsuyung in allied hands won't do it as it would be impossible for the Japanese player to garrison enough hexes in that expanse between the two to stop the flow.

In my game with Brad, I hold all of Burma including Lashio and Myitkyina. According to the manual, I have not blocked the flow of supply because I do not hold Ledo and a clear path can be traced between Ledo and Tsuyung even if in a very roundabout way.

It is 8 hexes from Ledo to Tsuyung. Is there a limit to the number of hexes that the path must stay within? If not, then it becomes impossible to block a clear supply path without holding all three bases.

Chez

I'm positive that an earlier thread on this topic discovered that the reference to Ledo in the manual is incorrect. Originally that is what was planned, but the Ledo road was never implmented in the final game, so you need only to cut the road from Rangoon - no supply flows from Ledo.

Correct.

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez
Ok, that's one magic road. In order to stop supply to China according to the manual, the Japanese player would have to hold Tsuyung to absolutely prevent the supply flow. Holding either Rangoon or Ledo with Tsuyung in allied hands won't do it as it would be impossible for the Japanese player to garrison enough hexes in that expanse between the two to stop the flow.

Here's what the manual says...

"For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or
between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are
added to Tsuyung."

Hexes have to be road or railroad (trails and railroads are the same thing). This disqualifies Ledo, because no path of rail or road hexes exist between Ledo and Tsuyung. As for Rangoon, I believe holding Rangoon, or Prome and Pegu, or Schwebo and Lashio, or any hex between Paoshan and Tsuyung would be fine. Note that the manual says the physical presence of units is what counts. As such, it might be a good idea to get a few units up the Paoshan road once the Allies close on Rangoon. This way, the road won't reopen too soon, and the Allies cannot resupply China from southern Burma.

Francois

Use those C-47s at Ledo and place a few large heavy AA units there to deter Japanese bombers. It takes some time, but significant supplies can be lifted like it was in RL.

True enough. But a heads up on OPS losses. These will be significant and, like IRL, part and parcel of trying to supply an entire nation at war by long-range airlift.

Didn't they call it the Aluminum Trail?  Navigate by the crash sites?

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Use those C-47s at Ledo and place a few large heavy AA units there to deter Japanese bombers. It takes some time, but significant supplies can be lifted like it was in RL.

This is what I do, works well. I stand down any day see I "extreme" in the weather forecast for Ledo or (censored). Ops losses are significant, but manageable, though there won't be C-47 replacements available for much else. I also keep excess pilots in the groups, and make sure they have at least a 65 transport skill before being assigned. Micromanaging, sure, but I fly about 1000 tons per day.

As long as the Japanese were able to hold Myitkyina they also were able to send fighter patrols over the hump to run interception. The Allies capture of that key base was about the only significant strategic gain they ever made in Burma. It stoped Japanese fighter raids and provided valuable way station for transport-allowing for a great increase in the flow of supply into China. Forget the Ledo road. Even when it opened it only accounted for about 10% fot the supply flow into China. Most supply went by air. In addition 70% of the supply flown into China went to support the Ameirican 14th air force and China got very little from the Allies. Of the supply that was alloted to the Chinese army 90% was diverted to the X and Y forces which were mostly Allied directed armies fighting in Burma. The rest of the 2-3 million Chinese soldiers got virtually nothing from the Allied war effort and bascially fought the Japanese using their own local resources.

I'm positive that an earlier thread on this topic discovered that the reference to Ledo in the manual is incorrect. Originally that is what was planned, but the Ledo road was never implmented in the final game, so you need only to cut the road from Rangoon - no supply flows from Ledo.

Excellent. No extra supply to China for Brad unless he is flying the Hump.

Chez

Been away for a couple of days.  Thanks for all the informative replies.

Since there will eventually have to be a buildup of transport aircraft at Ledo, how do I know how much an aircraft, or a squadron of aircraft, can carry?  I haven't been able to see anything on the aircraft info window.

Thanks again, guys.  This is a class forum.

@ witpqs: Yeah, I wish it could be 5000 points of supply a day, no thanks to the desperately chronic supply shortages in China. Getting ships into Rangoon safely is a real bitch. Hopefully my upcoming assaults on Wuchang, Hankow, and Sinyang by the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th War Areas will initially relieve some of the pressure. Wuchang, and especially Hankow, are juicy, but I only need Sinyang for a nice clean rail supply route to Chengchow and that surrounding region. The warlords are almost ready, except for that supply situation...

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

Been away for a couple of days.  Thanks for all the informative replies.

Since there will eventually have to be a buildup of transport aircraft at Ledo, how do I know how much an aircraft, or a squadron of aircraft, can carry?  I haven't been able to see anything on the aircraft info window.

Thanks again, guys.  This is a class forum.

@ witpqs: Yeah, I wish it could be 5000 points of supply a day, no thanks to the desperately chronic supply shortages in China. Getting ships into Rangoon safely is a real bitch. Hopefully my upcoming assaults on Wuchang, Hankow, and Sinyang by the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th War Areas will initially relieve some of the pressure. Wuchang, and especially Hankow, are juicy, but I only need Sinyang for a nice clean rail supply route to Chengchow and that surrounding region. The warlords are almost ready, except for that supply situation...

Don't forget Canton. It has several light industry factories that can help a lot as well. Watch out for Hankow since there is a decent concentration of Japanese units there and unless you have sufficient engineers, you might end in trouble.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

True enough. But a heads up on OPS losses. These will be significant and, like IRL, part and parcel of trying to supply an entire nation at war by long-range airlift.

Just got Tracker re-loaded and up, paging around looking at stats. Imagine my shock at seeing the C-47 as my highest Ops Lost model for the Allies at 536 by March 1944. About double the next nearest plane of any misison type. I've had many squadrons at Ledo flying into China whatever scraps I could get there since 1942, but the loss number was huge.

One thing I found in WitP, not sure if it is the same in AE, is that by increasing the size of both bases of supply runs to 5+ decreased my ops losses by a large amount. And keeping the range within normal range helped considerably also.

ORIGINAL: Nomad

One thing I found in WitP, not sure if it is the same in AE, is that by increasing the size of both bases of supply runs to 5+ decreased my ops losses by a large amount. And keeping the range within normal range helped considerably also.

Both of these factors should help to reduce Ops losses. Also, watch the fatigue of the groups and make sure to give them plenty of rest.

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

Been away for a couple of days.  Thanks for all the informative replies.

Since there will eventually have to be a buildup of transport aircraft at Ledo, how do I know how much an aircraft, or a squadron of aircraft, can carry?  I haven't been able to see anything on the aircraft info window.

Thanks again, guys.  This is a class forum.

@ witpqs: Yeah, I wish it could be 5000 points of supply a day, no thanks to the desperately chronic supply shortages in China. Getting ships into Rangoon safely is a real bitch. Hopefully my upcoming assaults on Wuchang, Hankow, and Sinyang by the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th War Areas will initially relieve some of the pressure. Wuchang, and especially Hankow, are juicy, but I only need Sinyang for a nice clean rail supply route to Chengchow and that surrounding region. The warlords are almost ready, except for that supply situation...

Look at the "max load" on the aircraft info screen

2000 lbs = 1 ton = 1 point of supply per plane, per day.

4000 lbs = 2 points of supply, etc.

You can use bombers to haul supply, in addition to transports. I don't know that that's your best use of B-17s and B-24s, but it is an option. [;)]