Matrix Games Forums

Sometimes I dream about "the ultimate" computer game. I wonder if game designers ever do that?

Obviously there are real world constraints; but if you don't dream, then you may not pursue the unexplored.

So, to foster a repository of deam like ideas for the most innovative, envelope pushing games you can possibly imagine, I would like us all to contribute to this thread. Dream little or big, incrementally or en masse, unrealistically overblown or just something that hasn't been done even though it could be. Whatever you prefer. Refer to existing games, or just brainstorm and suggest something completely novel.

My first love in computer gaming was Civ. I had to quit playing it to finish grad school, and I didn't play ANY computer games for 10 years. Naturally when I finally finished the Ph.D. and got back into gaming the first thing I did is go out and buy Civ3. With the Conquests expansion and the various mods, that game is probably the one that I have played the most. Civ4 was IMO, for the most part an improvement on 3, but as far as I can tell 5 is not. I have in the past had lots of dreams about what the Civ series could be if, say for example, they tried to approach it more like War in the Pacific.

Imagine that will ya?

An earth hex map at ~25 mile hexes, and with the detail and complexity of WiTP, but with the express focus on simulating all of human civilization. I know mind boggling to imagine eh? I'll just leave that one at that for now and move on with my most recent 'fantasy game.'

In honor of the 150 anniversary of the ACW starting, I've been back to the Civil War game kick. I used to play Civil War Generals II which was very cool because it integrated tactical hex map battles with a campaign feature in which the outcomes of battles could change which ones were fought next or even if they were fought at all, and also the player got opportunities to refit units and shift commanders around in between battles. You could basically play through most of the major eastern battles and several of the smaller ones this way. I never made it past about Gettysburg I think.

One of my all time favorite games is Forge of Freedom. Here lately I've been playing Take Command Second Manassas, but I've also recently started up a single player FoF game.

If you haven't played either, FoF is basically strategic ACW in which all the states are represented on a campaign map, and most are broken down into two or more "provinces." It is a bit like Civ in that you can build infrastructure, gain techs, etc. It uses a very innovative "container" system for units which, in conjunction with unit "upgrades," allows the player an amazing lattitude in organizing and customizing his army to suit is grand strategy. Battles can be played out in instant mode, quick mode or detailed mode.

The detailed mode is what comes closest to the tactical battles of CWGII, but with one caveat: all the detailed hex battlefield maps are random. This is where Take Command Second Manassas comes in:
imagine if all the areas where an ACW battle of more than say 2000 combatants were digitized using the now readily available satellite maps. Some arbitrary diameter around each battlefield could be selected (say 30 miles?) and the satellite data for all those circles could be used to create game maps. Assuming that some fairly quick way to do that was possible, the real work would be to change the infrastructure and settlement pattern to 19th century approximations.

Then the game could effectively be FoF + TC2M.

For me, I would love a modern version of Bethesda's Daggerfall. That game had the biggest landmass in any computer game, MMO's included. It ran into technical issues from being too far ahead of it's time. Outstanding character customization, violence, and nudity. (Not porn, think 1980's Conan the Barbarian). You could buy your own house and your own ship that would take you places.

This would be the perfect game for me.

A modern version of SSI's Computer Ambush.

An earth hex map at ~25 mile hexes, and with the detail and complexity

It is also my dream! If WI will grow "a bit" with no doubt we will try to realize it [8D]

ORIGINAL: Anraz

An earth hex map at ~25 mile hexes, and with the detail and complexity

It is also my dream! If WI will grow "a bit" with no doubt we will try to realize it [8D]

Cool I'll buy your games!

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

For me, I would love a modern version of Bethesda's Daggerfall. That game had the biggest landmass in any computer game, MMO's included. It ran into technical issues from being too far ahead of it's time. Outstanding character customization, violence, and nudity. (Not porn, think 1980's Conan the Barbarian). You could buy your own house and your own ship that would take you places.

This would be the perfect game for me.

DaggerfalXL?

Super Meat Boy: Vietnam. [:D]

From the RTS thread...

I dream of a realtime War in the East with BFTB chain of command and AI features.  That way, you can just give orders to a few Army Groups and let the AI do the rest if you're lazy. Just to add a bit more falvor... Why not also put in a team multiplayer mode where you can take the role of any general at any level (Supreme command, Army Group, Army, Corps)? Or you can also play solo as a lower general with AI driven orders from the top like Take Command. [:D] [:D] [:D]

I am nerdy in that I 'rate' every game I buy. 10.0 being the highest rating. I have about 10 games or so that I consider 10s.
A 10 does not mean the game is perfect. The ratings are relative to other games in their genre.
A few examples would be Chrono Trigger, Baldurs Gate 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Fallout 2, Gran Turismo 2 along with a few others.
I can't think of any wargames to make the list. Steel Panthers WAW and Red Devil Over Arnehm come close but not quite.

I am never really expecting the perfect computer game. Technology keeps upping standards and even your super game will one day pale in comparison.

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I am nerdy in that I 'rate' every game I buy. 10.0 being the highest rating. I have about 10 games or so that I consider 10s.

Might make in interesting thread sometime, everybody's 10/10 games across all genres. Could reveal a few hidden gems. I won't digress here though.

Actually, in relation the OP I'm not a big fan of attempted strategic and tactical combos. That's only partly because nobody has yet done it to anything like the 10/10 (admittedly hypothetical) standard we are discussing; one side is always poorer than the other, unless both are equally awful. In general, I just to prefer to play one or the other. If it's a strategic game, I just want to get on with the strategy, not digress into hours worth of tactical battles. Sure you can usually turn them off, but that rather defeats the point. Likewise, if I'm playing a good tactical game I want to keep playing tactical battles.. in such games the power and ease of use of the editor is far more important to me than any 'strategic layer' unless that was of WitE type quality/complexity - in which case I wouldn't be playing the tactical battles!

It comes down to how much you can actually fit in one game. It takes long enough to play most good strategic level games, anyway. Combine WitE or WitP with a tactical game and completing a campaign would need dedication rivalling that shown by Anthropoid in gaining his doctorate!

As to an 'ultimate' computer game, for me it would just be something - from pretty much any genre - that does what it attempts pretty much perfectly. That hasn't been done yet in wargames, probably due to the complexity of the task and extreme unlikelihood sales could ever recover the costs. Other genres, such as RTS and FPS, have come closer. The first has never been my 'thing' but second has produced some real gems and - particularly when people are prepared to diverge from the norm an innovate some - FPS have continued to improve over time. Sadly, with the insistence these days pretty much everything must have console releases as well, that has pretty much stalled, but hopefully will pick up at some point.

I mentioned Super Meat Boy only half in jest. No, it's not perfect. It's also in a genre I would normally avoid like the plague come to that, but in this case at three quid for a Metacritic rated 88% game I thought I'd give it it a go even if 46 year olds are hardly the intended audience. And, of course, I'm now totally hooked. It might not attempt much in terms of the 'ultimate game', but what it does attempt it succeeds in almost perfectly, tough as hell, but never unfairly. I put what are probably now thousands of broken hex-box controllers and additional diazepam prescriptions down to unintended side effects!

I kind've agree about the problems that arise from a strategic + tactical game. However, there is a dynamic to be captured there (when it is done well) that is novel and appealing. Civil War Generals II had that dynamic. Wacht Am Rhein gets it to a lesser extent.

Basically, with CWGII, you have a very limited ability to reorganize and refit your brigades between battles. Also, the flow chart of which battle is "opened up" depends on the outcome of preceding battles. Basically it allows you to "rewrite history" but without dealing with anything more than just the the military group organization/equipment. Actually now that I think about it, WiTP achieves this as well.

One other comment: there is, right now, a limit on how much you can put into one game, but lets dream here eh!?

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

My first love in computer gaming was Civ. I had to quit playing it to finish grad school, and I didn't play ANY computer games for 10 years. Naturally when I finally finished the Ph.D. and got back into gaming the first thing I did is go out and buy Civ3. With the Conquests expansion and the various mods, that game is probably the one that I have played the most. Civ4 was IMO, for the most part an improvement on 3, but as far as I can tell 5 is not ...

... which explains why I saw a price break on Civ V at Target, but I was able to buy the latest Civ IV build for less than $20.

In fact, I'm relearning it now -- it has a great tutorial.

Super Meat Boy sounds awful!

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Super Meat Boy sounds awful!

That's what I thought until I actually started playing it! It isn't a game I'd expect most grog types to like, or that I'd recommend they buy unless willing to take a chance. I know perfectly well I'll never get halfway through it, let alone finish it (too old, too slow), but I've already had more than my monies worth.

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Super Meat Boy sounds awful!

Except that it is wonderful.

Plants vs Zombies would also be in this category

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Plants vs Zombies would also be in this category

Indeedy. And indeed Minecraft, come that that. Nation Red is another of my favourite time wasters. Amazing what you pick up for very little (especially in Steam and GG sales) that gives you far more entertainment that most so called 'A' titles. You just have to be willing to risk a few duds for each success; it's easy enough to avoid the complete cr*p but some games just grab you when others don't, especially in the indie sector when are not so sure what to expect. Still others have great, original ideas you can only admire, but for some reason don't quite pull it off.