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ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:43 am
by cookie monster
I have a late game where some AI empires are bankrupt. Some also have maximum war weariness and most of them have diabolical reputation.
IIRC I started this game with the AI agression setting at unstable level.
I don't consider bankrupt empires should be able to maintain as many troops as they are. Some sort of balancing mechanism should be in place before the Mortalen's are 3.6 million credits in debt.
They all have diabolical reputation leading to eternal war. I presume the ''good ol'' surprise attack is to blame for this.
Some also have maximum war weariness. Surely at maximum the empire should be imploding/exploding etc.
I attach a screenshot. If you wanna check out a save try one of the earlier ones I uploaded I can't imagine anything has changed.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:23 am
by Data
Same rules that apply to us don't apply to the AI? How unusual [:)]
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:14 am
by ollobrains
cheating ais are usually a symptom of under programmed or inabliity to come up with a competitive ai
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:25 am
by Data
usually yes....here I think it's the case of getting the game outhere and imrpoving it later
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:19 am
by Kayoz
ORIGINAL: ollobrains
cheating ais are usually a symptom of under programmed or inabliity to come up with a competitive ai
It's done in -ALL- games as far as I'm aware.
See Sid Meier's statement on the subject:
http://www.mindjack.com/interviews/sidmeier.html
How much does the computer cheat in Civ III? Does it bother you?
Soren (who wrote the AI): We believe the game is most fun on the levels where the AI either doesn’t cheat or it cheats only a little bit. We took out some of the most visible cheats that the AI did in previous games because it is important that the user doesn’t feel that they are continually seeing the AI do things the user can’t do. There is an overall AI production bonus or penalty that the AI gets that allows it to build units or research faster or slower depending – it’s the third level where everything is even. Of course for some people what’s fun is what’s the hardest thing to beat. I wouldn’t find the highest level fun myself but it is hard. We would really encourage people to stick to the middle levels. I don’t think there is a right or wrong way to do this but we give people the option.
Sid Meier
Is it the same AI with different capabilities? Or is it smarter or dumber?
The AI can be more aggressive at higher levels and more stingy when trading.
Does the AI know more about the world?
The main thing is it is almost impossible to simulate the screen/keyboard interface for the computer – it would be a collossal waste of resources. There are some advantages the AI gets in searching the world but as I write the AI I try to make it make decisions based on what it should or shouldn’t know. That’s important so that the AI looks more human and also so the humans can’t take advantage of obvious differences to “trap” the AI.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:33 pm
by cookie monster
My concern is that
What happens when an AI is in debt can it no longer build anything?
Is it possible to recover from this debt?
With the war weariness
I played a short game of the Super AI mod, on the at the time recommend aggression setting of Chaos
This lead to multiple wars, very high Galactic resource prices and the splitting off of 10 colonies of an empire
Lots of colonies have gone independent or joined my empire in this Unstable aggression setting game
But rampant war weariness may lead to these empires self destructing
I just think maximum bad reputation,maximum war weariness and 3.6 million in debt are a bit extreme.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:12 am
by Foraven
I believe the game has never been tested with everyone at war with everyone. This game has never been made with total war in mind, your economy gets crippled in no time from any sustained war unless your foes have too little forces to actually strike back. Even then, your population don't like it no matter how little damage you are actually taking.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:52 pm
by cookie monster
After a long look around most of the AI's industry is not present. It's either been destroyed by war or pirates.
The AI misses out on space port taxes, cos it ain't got no space ports.
My 90 constructors were stuck in the loop of resources needed to complete constructions.
It's REAL difficult to kickstart production when there's a galaxy wide derth of polymer.
How do you construct when all polymers reserved???
Unstable unagression setting and pirates at many didn't appear to work in this game.
I'm not gonna test it again, I don't have the time.
What's the point in having a many pirate setting when the AI cannot deal with it?
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:13 pm
by Data
How do you construct when all polymers reserved???
I agree with you and for the above the solution would be to micro trade sanctions and scrapping to get extra polymer to build new polymer mining stations....and even then wait for the polymer levels to slowly creep up. And hope you're not attacked for the trade sanctions in the meantime. JOY.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:58 pm
by Kayoz
ORIGINAL: cookie monster
This lead to multiple wars, very high Galactic resource prices and the splitting off of 10 colonies of an empire
Lots of colonies have gone independent or joined my empire in this Unstable aggression setting game
But rampant war weariness may lead to these empires self destructing
In fairness to Elliot, you're playing with a mod that makes some drastic changes to the behaviour of the computer managed positions. This really isn't a question for him - it's something you need to direct to the mod author.
As for war weariness, I fully agree with you. It needs some TLC. If you're in a protracted war with one opponent - and just as you move in for the finishing blow, you get attacked by a 1-planet empire - then your war weariness continues, regardless of the fact that you've trounced your original opponent and are facing an opponent that can't possibly beat you. War weariness really should be reduced when you finish a war with an opponent, to reflect that the population can see an "end in sight" of the war.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:56 pm
by cookie monster
I wasnt playing with the Super AI mod. I think that's unworkable.
This was a stock game with unstable agression and many pirates setting.
What made you think I was playing a mod?
I would have stated that otherwise.
RE: ROTS 1.5.0.8 Bankrupt AI Empires & other problems!
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:10 pm
by Kayoz
Your posting 4/23/2011 11:33:24 PM - "I played a short game of the Super AI mod, on the at the time recommend aggression setting of Chaos" - I thought you were referring to the same settings. My bad!