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Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:17 am
by Twotribes
Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.
Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:34 am
by lion_of_judah
This is why you need to horde your supplies and not launch attacks until you are ready. Wars did not start right away, and Nations mobilized and stocked enough supplies to last for months. That is why this new game is more realistic than the old AT, in that you have to watch what you do and make sure you don't run low. Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade your oil refineries is key....
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:27 am
by tweber
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.
Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.
However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:21 am
by Twotribes
ORIGINAL: tweber
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.
Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.
However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.
Already tried it wont let you change stats. The only thing I could change was the amount of fuel used for Strategic deployment.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:40 am
by all5n
I definitely don't use trucks at all any more, especially in games in which navies play a large role.
Between my tanks and my navy, I am effectively at 0 oil at the start of each turn (before production). In one game i am playing, i have had to mothball the tanks in my army fighting an AI opponent so i can use the oil against the players i am fighting.
In pbem games with AI countries, a strategy seems to be to capture upgraded AI oil wells, which are often level 3. That is a free 140PP worth of upgrades and very valuable. Thats about the cost of Staff II or Rifle/SMG II + Artillery II. Much of this strategy is based on luck/where the AI oil wells are located.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:03 pm
by ernieschwitz
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
ORIGINAL: tweber
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.
Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.
However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.
Already tried it wont let you change stats. The only thing I could change was the amount of fuel used for Strategic deployment.
Remember to disengage the masterfile before doing it ...
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:23 pm
by Twotribes
ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
ORIGINAL: tweber
I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.
However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.
Already tried it wont let you change stats. The only thing I could change was the amount of fuel used for Strategic deployment.
Remember to disengage the masterfile before doing it ...
How does one do that?
RE: Trucks
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:53 pm
by tweber
Go into the editor, then settings, then click the masterfile button (it is a blue arrow button). It will ask you for the masterfile and you just cancel. This removes the masterfile.
Changing fuel stats unit by unit will take a while. If, systematically, you want to reduce the impact of fuel, you can: go into editor, go into items, select the oil item, then click the prodmultiplier button. You can now make it so multiple of fuel is produced. This is the same as systematically dividing the fuel requirements of all units.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:08 am
by Grymme
I think in general that units were quite balanced in AT. So it might be that trucks etc should have their fuel cost adjusted a little because they might become less usesfull.
That being said WWII was not a cakewalk as far as fuel was concerned. Many nations had to suspend offensives and operations because of fuel shortage. For example the entire Italian navy and airforce more or less came to a halt because they had so little fuel. If every player would have the possibility to move all fuel consuming units every round then there would be no use to having fuel as a concept.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:58 pm
by kendollem
The only issue im finding with the scarcity of fuel and how much units use.. Raws really dont have a point.You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .
RE: Trucks
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:03 pm
by Barthheart
ORIGINAL: kendollem
...
You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .
Really not sure what you're saying here... why do you have to build 2 gun factories for every other factory?
Also you do know that you can turn off a factory by setting all it production lines to 0? There's no need to make stuff if you're not going to use it.... that's just a waste of Raw resources.....
RE: Trucks
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:46 pm
by Ande
ORIGINAL: Barthheart
ORIGINAL: kendollem
...
You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .
Really not sure what you're saying here... why do you have to build 2 gun factories for every other factory?
Also you do know that you can turn off a factory by setting all it production lines to 0? There's no need to make stuff if you're not going to use it.... that's just a waste of Raw resources.....
There would be little point in building another factory if you got one of the same type that you're not using and letting raw material pile up is a waste of mine investments. The only thing left to do is to is to build a lot of artillery. There are ofcourse some fuelcheap things you can do with a airplane factory. Perhaps the most useful is to stack up on fighters for defence. Defence as in never fly them anywere ever. Another thing I experimented with was missles at one point. They only cost fuel at construction (or so I think) and is something to spend the production when you can't afford anything else. I would suggest that the fuel requirement for missles II is removed to stimulate the need for them at all.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:23 pm
by kendollem
ORIGINAL: Ande
ORIGINAL: Barthheart
ORIGINAL: kendollem
...
You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .
Really not sure what you're saying here... why do you have to build 2 gun factories for every other factory?
Also you do know that you can turn off a factory by setting all it production lines to 0? There's no need to make stuff if you're not going to use it.... that's just a waste of Raw resources.....
There would be little point in building another factory if you got one of the same type that you're not using and letting raw material pile up is a waste of mine investments. The only thing left to do is to is to build a lot of artillery. There are ofcourse some fuelcheap things you can do with a airplane factory. Perhaps the most useful is to stack up on fighters for defence. Defence as in never fly them anywere ever. Another thing I experimented with was missles at one point. They only cost fuel at construction (or so I think) and is something to spend the production when you can't afford anything else. I would suggest that the fuel requirement for missles II is removed to stimulate the need for them at all.
Yea thats pretty much what im saying.. And with only core cities capable of producing supplys.. Ones infantry army continues to decreace after a certain point and you'll have a crap ton of arty and infantry guns if you try to use all your raw. Which you would be crazy not to.
Not sure if theres an easy fix tho.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:34 am
by Casus_Belli
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.
Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
Didn't Cornelius Ryan says that, at the time of Market Garden in '44 the Germany Army was still 80% powered by horses? And marching, of course, not to mention the railways.
RE: Trucks
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:35 pm
by Twotribes
ORIGINAL: Casus_Belli
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.
Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
Didn't Cornelius Ryan says that, at the time of Market Garden in '44 the Germany Army was still 80% powered by horses? And marching, of course, not to mention the railways.
The Germans had no means to procure enough trucks. They raided every conquered country for usuable military vehicles and still needed more.