Matrix Games Forums

You know there are tread heads and then there are the PBI.

I have played games where the emphasis was on both.

In the end I'm more of a PBI kind of guy. I really like the small infantry action type of battles. Or those with mostly infantry and some armored support.

I'm constantly talking about the infantry model that is going to get more work done to it in PC4. Which it will. But don't think we didn't work on the infantry combat model for PCO because there were countless things that have been done in PCO that improves infantry game play from the PCK release.

Grass was a very large part of improving the infantry game. While it looks nice and it adds to the immersion factor the truth is that grass is here for the infantry battle.

It gives the infantry cover to get them to within a distance where they can inflict some damage as well.

While I still think the infantry combat model needs work, not in the direction many of you might think, it can be quite deadly and a lot of fun in PCO as well.

Good Hunting.

MR

there were countless things that have been done in PCO that improves infantry game play from the PCK release.

Name them. [:)]

Grass was a very large part of improving the infantry game. While it looks nice and it adds to the immersion factor the truth is that grass is here for the infantry battle.

First thing I turned off because of FPS performance. I knew this would happen when youse guys started talking about all that grass.

I like infantry too.  That's why I'm really hoping someone will post modified xml files (xls?) so we have fully displayed squads (1:1 representation) without having to edit them all myself.  Hint  

ORIGINAL: diablo1
First thing I turned off because of FPS performance. I knew this would happen when youse guys started talking about all that grass.

Turning off the display of grass doesn't actually remove its game effect, it just makes it invisible to the player.

Regarding infantry, the product page has a list of what was added and improved, but fatigue modeling, animations for casualties, close assault, panzerschrecks/panzerfausts, flame throwers, tweaked the infantry casualty formulas, fixed some issues with infantry medals in campaigns, adjusted point values, improvements to LOS to make infantry harder to spot, etc.

Regards,

- Erik

I do think that the point needs to be made that you can't expect to receive ever more advanced simulations and to play them at Ultra on the same hardware. I don't mean to offend anyone (but I will) but I haven't noted any performance issues and the new grass etc. looks great to me. Please don't tone it down.

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

I do think that the point needs to be made that you can't expect to receive ever more advanced simulations and to play them at Ultra on the same hardware. I don't mean to offend anyone (but I will) but I haven't noted any performance issues and the new grass etc. looks great to me. Please don't tone it down.

Just because you can afford some top end system doesn't mean everyone can or should have to. These games need to be optimized for the Average computer systems out there and even more toward the low end of that so everyone can buy the game an enjoy it at a "simular" level of graphics. Wargaming is already a niche market and cutting ones thoat despite ones head isn't the way to make a lot of sales in this particular market. From my standpoint the 8800gt is about the average video card of wargamers out there and these games should be optimized for that card.

ORIGINAL: diablo1

there were countless things that have been done in PCO that improves infantry game play from the PCK release.

Name them. [:)]

Infantry combat losses were adjusted.
Infantry firepower ratings were adjusted.
Infantry fatigue was added.
Infantry unit loss displays were adjusted.
Infantry close combat models were adjusted.
Grass was added to give the infantry less of a chance to be seen.
Infantry animations were redone.
Infantry units were added.
Soviet Art of War rules affect infantry combat.
Leaders losses are replaced.
Leaders on the HUD show whose an original leader and whose a replacement leader.
Leaders on the HUD are shown when they are in radio contact.
Hand held AT weapons were added/ adjusted.
Flamethrowers were added.
Infantry units that surrender.
Infantry units that route.
Three levels of infantry unit survival SOP.
Soviet charge (human wave) orders.


These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more than that if I go back and look at the changes log. We've made A LOT of changes to the PC system in more than 2 years. Not all of it has had to do with tanks and artillery.

This list is not in the order of application but in order of how they come into my head to write them down.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Grass was a very large part of improving the infantry game. While it looks nice and it adds to the immersion factor the truth is that grass is here for the infantry battle.

First thing I turned off because of FPS performance. I knew this would happen when youse guys started talking about all that grass.

The grass being displayed is not the issue.

The grass being present is.

You can turn the grass graphics on or off. That doesn't affect game play. The computer still sees the grass and uses the LOS modifiers assigned to it.

What makes a HUGE difference is the survivability of your infantry in an grass vs open area environment. If you charge a platoon across an open field against a single MG you'll wish you hadn't. With grass in place at least you have a chance to get within close combat ranges.

Good Hunting.

MR

But in the snow which there was a lot of in the Russian campaign what does grass do then? My men running across open snow that's covering tons of grass is getting mowed down.

I also think the supression levels are too high vs infantry. One round of fire and half or more of infantry just goes to ground and does nothing. You know we do play these games for the ACTION of it not to watch our units just lay on the ground and do diddly. I want to see fire fights not who has the flatest belly. I want to see blazing firefights for minute after minutes not routing like wildfires.

ORIGINAL: diablo1

But in the snow which there was a lot of in the Russian campaign what does grass do then? My men running across open snow that's covering tons of grass is getting mowed down.

Grass does nothing in the snow. You get to just eat MG bullets when you attack across clear snow fields on a clear weather day.

Not a good result.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: diablo1

I also think the supression levels are too high vs infantry. One round of fire and half or more of infantry just goes to ground and does nothing. You know we do play these games for the ACTION of it not to watch our units just lay on the ground and do diddly. I want to see fire fights not who has the flatest belly. I want to see blazing firefights for minute after minutes not routing like wildfires.

Yes, I agree, as has been said the infantry combat model needs some work. However, we didn't have forever to release PCO and you were one of those that was most adamant about what was taking so long. The last change made was to get more improvement to the infantry combat model with the grass.

So, here we are. PCO is far from perfect. We only had so much time and we even went far beyond that. We only had so many resources and we pushed those. We can only do so much in a free update and we really pushed that.

Can the infantry be improved. I think we all agree that it can be. Is it set to be looked at next. Yes, that's been stated over and over.

Will there be more infantry content added before PC4 is released? I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen either. PCO is not the end of the line but the beginning of the series being a more rounded combat model instead of being completely tank-centric.

There will be a PC4 wishlist appearing soon I'm sure. As you play PCO you guys need to keep in mind what you would like to see put into the next game in the series.

As has been noted before. We do actually listen to you guys. We may not implement every suggestion given to us, but, we listen to, and evaluate every suggestion made.


Good Hunting.

MR

we didn't have forever to release PCO and you were one of those that was most adamant about what was taking so long. The last part was to get more improvement to the infantry combat model.

Hey now don't blame it on ME that you guys don't know how to set your PRIORITIES straight. Infantry should have been waaaaaay ahead of GRASS modeling as most everyone with average to low end systems is going to turn it off anyway regardless of how it still effects the battle on or off. I would have been much happier with better infantry modeling than grass deflection or cover to a degree.

I am grateful for what you have done don't get me wrong. I'm just saying after playing awhile more now I think supression needs to be adjusted more in favor of having fun fire fights than watching every infantry unit goto ground in a couple of rounds that's all.

Now have a beer and enjoy watching the Mavericks beat the LA Lakers out of the playoffs....oh wait! [:D]

Hi Diablo1,

You did get better infantry modeling and it was worked on before grass. There will always be more we can do. Infantry in Ostfront works much better than in Kharkov or Winterstorm. Infantry always gets attention in each release.

You've been the biggest voice in favor of releasing this last month, last year, two years ago! I don't think you have a basis, given that, for saying we needed to spend more time working on it. There will be time in the next release.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: diablo1

we didn't have forever to release PCO and you were one of those that was most adamant about what was taking so long. The last part was to get more improvement to the infantry combat model.

Hey now don't blame it on ME that you guys don't know how to set your PRIORITIES straight. Infantry should have been waaaaaay ahead of GRASS modeling as most everyone with average to low end systems is going to turn it off anyway regardless of how it still effects the battle on or off. I would have been much happier with better infantry modeling than grass deflection or cover to a degree.

I am grateful for what you have done don't get me wrong. I'm just saying after playing awhile more now I think supression needs to be adjusted more in favor of having fun fire fights than watching every infantry unit goto ground in a couple of rounds that's all.

Now have a beer and enjoy watching the Mavericks beat the LA Lakers out of the playoffs....oh wait! [:D]

ROFL!! I'm not blaming it on anyone. We just had priorities as you say. We cleared those priorities and now you have a game in 2 more days.

Lakers or Mavs....hmmmmm, not a hard choice.

Good Hunting.

MR

Will PC4 be out soon or only in a few years ?

We haven't started work on it yet and it should be a full fledged game. So, I would think PC4 would need at least 18 months.

What  you may well see between now and a full fledged game could be expansions/updates/etc....an infantry combat update could theoretically be one of the things you could see between now and then.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Wiggum
Will PC4 be out soon or only in a few years ?

Not soon, but there will be expansions in the meantime.

Regards,

- Erik

Hello MR:

Could we assume then that you have some infantry scenarios in PCO?

Gerry