Matrix Games Forums

From what we are seeing on most of the AARs the Germans are basically doing whatever they want during the Blitzkrieg. Leningrad and Moscow in the bag. If the game is well designed (and I am pretty certain it is) this should be the exception, NOT the rule!

I also notice in most of these games (if not all) the Soviets are leaving the German armored spearheads alone [:)] The reasoning seems to be: "they are unstoppable, I better don't try anything and wait for them ten hexes behind". The Germans of course arrive and the cycle continues (with some pockets in the process). Leningrad, Moscow in the bag. Is that really surprising? NO [;)]

This is a snowball. But don't get it wrong... it's THIS strategy which makes the German Panzers unstoppable in the first place!

Imagine the classic push towards Leningrad... We have two options: let the panzers do whatever they want aka hide near Pskov or bring units forward and let's see what can be done [:)]

What's going to happen?

If you hide near Pskov the Germans will simply advance --they would be idiots if they were not doing that in the first place -- and convert all the hexes. On next turn Pskov will possibly be in German hands

The second option -aka let's try to slow the fascists down!... IF you brought enough units (aka you concentrated forces in the first place ) the German armored units will NOT rout all of them, they think about advancing, the poor things... These units will be cutting the Panzers off on the next Soviet turn... Also note units along the two flanks of the German advance are VERY important...

This of course is not going to always work. But hiding near Pskov (and allowing the German tanks to advance totally unopposed) is an idiotic thing to do [:D] We all can see the results: Leningrad in the bag in most of the AARs. As easy as a walk in the park. Are you sure it should be that easy (again, IF the game is well designed; and again, I am pretty certain it is)? [;)]

And that's where this basic principle of war appears: concentration of forces. To do what I explained on the screenshots, you MUST bring many forces. You fight fire with fire: the Panzer Armies are SIMPLY a huge concentration of fire-power (and mobility). What are you waiting for? Do concentrate your Red Army hordes! Don't let them face HARMLESS enemy infantry and put them to good use in face of the German concentration of forces (aka Panzers...) [8D]

To show that I am not a lunatic after all [:D] This was done by me on my current game. Mere turn 2. The Germans were at mere 5 hexes from Pskov. The city was only captured much later, on turn 10 or 11 I think...

And then on Turn 3...

As you can see, I was NOT hiding behind Pskov... I MASSIVELY brought units forward... This strategy in my opinion paid extraordinary dividends.

Yes, I don't think Leningrad was on my enemy's list... BUT had I defended like in most of the AARs... I am pretty certain it would have become a REALISTIC objective: "wow, the door is open, I guess I will enter..."

And same thing in the center, to protect Moscow [;)] Mere turn 2, remember...

And turn 3 in the center... Hadn't I created this big mess, the enemy would have been in the landbridge [;)]

So in fact we have some sort of paradox... The more dangerous and agressive a German penetration seems to be = the most likely you will cut this advance off...

And it should make sense... This is NOT a walk in the park. The Germans must be bold, yes, but NEVER forget there are Soviet troops... Ants, whatever you want. Just put them to good use and you'll see what these ants can do... For starters, they might cut the enemy mighty panzers off and that's already a really important, or should I say VITAL, mission. They can do it. We all make mistakes. Your German opponent will make them too, don't worry...

Feel free to experiment and of course to disagree [:)]

Rant over and sorry for all this spam.

VERY interesting! I'd like to see how this plays out in an AAR of the 41 campaign at the very least! Nice to see how this game stimulates thought.

Yep..this strategy works to the most part. I've been using it and refining it for 2 years now [:)] Being proactive in your defense makes it a much more interesting game.

Read section 25.1.3 of the manual about Soviet strategy. I wrote that section. I would have liked to have written more with a few pics but we were limited on space.

I have been pleasantly ( because it is more fun) amazed at my opponent's Soviet creativity in my first PBEM game. Every time I think I have made one of the truism Axis milestones eg, take and pass Pskov on T3, Lvov pocket etc. he surprises me. Each turn he has isolated a panzer corps (or more) and broken my pockets. I now save all my planes to end-turn refuel the tanks as I "know" they will start isolated somewhere:) I have resorted to being even more crazy to hopefully keep him off balance, but one of these weeks I will see the Totenkopf trudging into captivity.

As for the checkerboard defence, does the he game treat all Divisions as equal? This would be a bit absurd as far as ZOC generation is concerned. Imagine the game if only Sov Corps size units, and Tank or Motorized Divs had ZOC. I like the last as it gives an incentive to fight with these units vice recycle them. Set on refit for 4 turns, the Mech Corps can get reasonably powerful against a tired Axis spearhead. Also, Static Divs would have no or reduced effect ZOC.

Tullius,
 
I have admired your AARs and wit; in the not too distant future I would be honored to attempt to run your Soviet gauntlet if you have the time and deign to accept. Of course you could try to use your practical knowledge as the Soviet to push the Axis forward...to doom. [:)]
 
Marquo [&o]

Marquo, the good thing about playing me is that you already know what my strategy will be. I will ALWAYS use the same strategy: #1 protect Moscow; #2 protect Leningrad; #3 avoid the destruction of the Red Army. No rocket science. But hey, I will always stick to this plan

Okay, TD. I am going on vacation in a week and should not start anything until I am ready to focus - that is what vacations are for, no? Hopefully by then the new patch will be out and official.
 
BTW, knowing your strategy thus defines mine: #1 ignore Moscow; # 2 ignore Leningrad; # 3 ignore the Red Army and thus totally confound you [8|].
 
Marquo
 
 
p.s. And maybe the air quagmire will be sorted out...by then...or not...

For Tullius:

Once you get a few months into the campaign ( about 12 turns in ), what does your manpower and armaments pool look like?  From what you seem to do, almost nothing is disbanded; that's a lot of manpower and equipment that goes to shells of tank divisions, security regiments, and AT brigades.

Very impressive but due credit to your opponent who stuck his tanks in silly places.

My currrent russian opponent did this very effectively particularly in the south for the 1st 3 turns ( more pocket breaking that anything else in the centre), despite my being careful: so I had thought.

By end of T4 he had run out of troops as he was being killed by my inf. As a result by end of clear weather I had captured leningrad, Moscow,tula. Donbass cities Rostov and Kerch. Kharkov/kursk /belgorod all in a large unbreakable pocket. Soviet losses 3.7M + enormous numbers of factories which I hope will save me in the blizzards which are now 2 turns away.

I would love to play your russians if this is your approach ( tho' not now as am just about to start my 4th concurrent GC with Redmarkus so i hope he reads this and copies you)

You picked ideal strategy against this opponent but this ain't no miracule cure IMHO. Hacking my opponent's computer and activating 'end turn' button when he's part way through remains my best move.

The first turns are the turns for a forward defence, but you also need to know when to quit.

A good Axis player won't, ever, put himself in a situation where you can cut off an entire Panzer Group like that, not to mention more than one. Instead, a checkerboard will just force him to make a more conservative advance or to strike one area hard and not do much elsewhere.

If you defend in a forward deployment for too long, all you'll do is lose troops in encirclements. When I'm planning a defensive strategy as the Soviets, I assume I'll probably lose roughly the territory that was historically lost and base my defensive preparations on that. If you do that, things can basically only get better if you don't risk your units. The thought that you can stop the Germans in summer is an illusion, you can only slow them down, but that allows you to fight on your terms.

To sum up: checkerboard.