Matrix Games Forums

so in the manual, it says smoke rounds are under CBE... and then has the audacity not to tell you what CBE means!!!

inquiring minds want to know!

(i assume it does not mean commander of the british empire)

thanks

jin

There are two main types of smoke shells; chemical base-eject (CBE) and phosphorus (usually noted as WP for white phosphorus).

While we don't have WP in Panzer Command yet (it was mainly used on the Western Front), it works differently than CBE. CBE is the kind of smoke shell that takes a while to build up but can make very thick smoke, whereas WP creates smoke that is not as thick but it creates it much more quickly as it is part of the initial explosion.

Regards,

- Erik

AHA!

thanks! that question was burrowing in my head ever since i read the letters CBE!

jin

CBE - Can't Be Everywhere!

That's why when you return to the panzer you cunningly hid in the woods five turns before you find a blackened hulk.

Does CBE burn the flesh off like WP?

Not yet, but wait until it actually is WP.

Good Hunting.

MR

Sorry, I meant the real stuff.  

It could if it hit a person directly. Chances of that happening would be rare.

Good Hunting.

MR

Funny, searching for this yielded our thread here as the top result [:)]  

I will search, because I am not positive, but there are other smoke shells besides WP that are typically direct fire and produce 'instant' smoke without a CBE type detonation.  They are also noxious in that infantry can be cleared from buildings by the fumes.  They just will not be burned like WP smoke.  It's my understanding that the Germans used these types of smoke shells in most of the direct fire 75mm+ sized smoke shells.  CBE is really a indirect artillery round.
 
WP uses an internal HE 'rod' that will break the shell casing.  This releases pressurized WP through the cracks and resulting 'scabs'.  The WP surrounds the 'rod' internally inside the shell case.  The actual shell case is a 'HE' shell typically.  A mortar WP will send the 'scabs' into the ground if it's a ground burst.  They will come down if it is a air-burst (read:tree burst).  But a direct fire sherman type WP sends those high velocity scabs at the target.  75mm sherman Willy-Pete was hell.

http://wk2ammo.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3850&d=1144365443

This Nb (smoke round) demonstrates what most German smoke shells looked like.  Again, the central tube is explosive and it is surrounded by the smoke mixture (oleum/pumice typically).  The explosive splits open the shell and the pressure spreads the smoke mixture for an instantaneous effect.



http://wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?t=1913

Sorry if I'm being daft, but are these alternatives to WP that won't cause chemical damage to people?

Basically the Germans would have loved to splash around WP like the US did.  But they did not have the raw materials available. 
 
But the German mortar and smoke shells worked the same way as the WP as far as having an inner explosive to break open the shell and release the smoke chemicals.  I have read of accounts, Arnhem to be specific, of the German tanks roaming about and clearing out the British paras from buildings.  The effect of the smoke is noxious in an enclosed space.  The danger of these smoke shells being fired at a direct target includes the actual large shell fragments.  They will fly out along with the smoke chemical spray.  The spin of the shell will disperse the spray at a very dangerous speed.  Most smoke shells are just HE shells and the mass of steel is the same.  I would say the explosive is typically only about 1/10th of what a HE shell would have but it's still dangerous to be near.
 
In any case, they are not CBE.  You could fire one of these just like a HE shell.  That is, it will arm in about 25 meters from leaving the gun tube.  Just as HE will. 

http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=181863
 
Nice display of US 75mm rounds.  Note the burster for the WP.