Matrix Games Forums

It seems that if I order my unit to move (i.e engage-move) it never shoots on the same turn. Many times I can see a tank stop and not shoot even if there are enemies right infront of it in plain sight. I have to wait for the next turn to give it order to shoot.

Is there a somkind of long delay after move which stops the unit from shooting or is it just so that unit cant move and shoot on the same turn?

Im just used to CM when the unit stops moving and sees enemies it will aim and pull trigger. In PCO though it seems the unit instead waits for the turn timer to run out before it shoots.

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

It seems that if I order my unit to move (i.e engage-move) it never shoots on the same turn even.

To have a unit fire in movement the correct order is Advance, engage-move doesn't permit it but it can be changed in engage-fire in the reaction phase.

I see this too and the tooltips state


<resource id="Engage_Move.tip" value="Normal Move with Fire">
</resource>
<resource id="Engage_Hold.tip"
value="No Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Engage_Facing.tip"
value="Face Change with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Engage_Target.tip"
value="No Move with Individually Targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_Stay.tip"
value="No Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>
<resource id="Defend_Move.tip"
value="Slow Move with Auto-targeted Fire"></resource>

I see that it says Fire as opposed to other orders that say Auto-targeted fire.

Manual

Engage
The platoon will target any enemy unit and/or move freely; they will have firing opportunities
during each phase. You can select the weapon and, if applicable, even choose the ammo type
to fire if you’re targeting an enemy unit manually. Otherwise, if you select Engage and Target,
the unit will automatically choose the best possible weapon and ammunition for the target
you select. Engage is the only order that allows you to manually specify a target for each unit.
Overall, Engage is the most tactically flexible platoon order.
Engage > Move
A Move during an Engage order proceeds at a normal speed over both phases if the unit does
not fire. When the move sub-order is selected, a blue line will be displayed; move the line to
where you want the unit to move and click to set the destination. A number will be displayed
next to the cursor as you move it around, indicating the distance in meters to that spot. Text will
be displayed next to the distance, indicating the terrain type in the location under the cursor.

ORIGINAL: JMass

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

It seems that if I order my unit to move (i.e engage-move) it never shoots on the same turn even.

To have a unit fire in movement the correct order is Advance, engage-move doesn't permit it but it can be changed in engage-fire in the reaction phase.

Advance is to slow in many cases. And it doesnt make any sense if i.e unit moves for say 10 seconds and then waits 50 seconds before firing. One of the main reasons i switched to 40 second turns was to shorten that artificial delay.

Currently Im back to 60 seconds and its just so silly to see units just sit there taking hits and not shooting back. What possible real life reason would they have for not shooting back? For gameplay purposes its no fun at all. You can easily loose a tank or two in 50 seconds.

<resource id="Engage_Move.tip" value="Normal Move with Fire">
</resource>

Can I modify the xml files so that engage-move has autotargeted fire like the rest of the commands? That would remove the delay?

In the meanwhile I try using that advance again. I gave it up earlier because the units seemed to move too slowly.

No you cannot modify that it is in the code. However I wonder if it is working properly. A tank on Engage>Move shouldn't stop to shoot but should shoot at an opportunity while moving. I wonder if it relates to SOP and if the tank will only take good shots, not poor?

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

No you cannot modify that it is in the code. However I wonder if it is working properly. A tank on Engage>Move shouldn't stop to shoot but should shoot at an opportunity while moving. I wonder if it relates to SOP and if the tank will only take good shots, not poor?

I would be happy if it would shoot after completing its move order. But if its suppese to shoot while moving then thats even better allthough the fire must be somwhat inaccurate.

Currently though the tanks dont even move their main guns on engage-move. They dont react to enemies at all in anyway until the next turn.

I have sop on and all units have it on normal. Thats actually what I was going to test next. If turning it off would make units shoot on engage-move.

Ill do som tests.

Or with it on set a platoon to aggressive to see if they will take poor shots?

One question. Do I have to manually give new targets to units when they are on engage-move or can they shoot at new targets automatically?

>I see that it says Fire as opposed to other orders that say Auto-targeted fire.

I think they should shoot automatically while moving. Once they complete their movement they revert to Engage>Stay and should auto target. You can't target during the playback.

Another thought, just because you see the enemy doesn't mean your tank can see it. If the enemy is stationary it can see your tank better than the reverse. So if an enemy targets your tank, and your tank doesn't fire, it may be that your tank doesn't see where the fire is coming from.
By the time the playback ends and you check LOS, things may have changed. This will be more pronounced if your tank is buttoned up.

Yes I was wondering why 1 second I see eneamy then dont.I still cant figure out how to move individuel vehicles/inf sections.I always have to click co and they always move as a group.[&:]

You see the enemy then one of you moves or ducks down and then you lose sight.

You order the platoon CO to move and the sub squads follow along. That is how platoons are supposed to work. But after you give the CO the order you can click a sub squad and reposition that order or possibly cancel it depending on the order.

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Yes I was wondering why 1 second I see enemy then dont.I still cant figure out how to move individuel vehicles/inf sections.I always have to click co and they always move as a group.[&:]

It is important to understand that after you give the commander orders, you can give sub-units new orders, but only among the set of sub-orders to that order. So for example if you give the commander the order to engage-move, you can give one of its sub-units the order to target an enemy unit and it will shoot instead of moving. But if you give the commander the order to advance, unless I remember wrong, you cannot give a sub-unit the order to target. That is why when I want a sub-unit to cover the advance by suppressing an enemy, I always give the commander the engage order.

Henri

ORIGINAL: Zakhal
One question. Do I have to manually give new targets to units when they are on engage-move or can they shoot at new targets automatically?
>I see that it says Fire as opposed to other orders that say Auto-targeted fire.

I don't think units fire on the move when given engage-move. If they move they won't fire. When they finish moving they will auto fire. Or, units are set to engage-hold will auto fire if no target is given. Now, defend, withdraw and advance will fire on the move for sure.

Perhaps a matrix of the orders and the effects can be compiled?&nbsp; I usually just use defend and engage and withdrawl most of the time.&nbsp; I would like a revamp of the whole system but I would not want to toss junior out with the bathwater.
&nbsp;
I do like the 'platoon-centric' system as it constrains the human player to be more realistic.&nbsp; Games that allow individual tanks to go off on free-wheeling joy rides, and the resulting borg-happy gameplay that results, seem to spoil the wargaming community.&nbsp;
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

ORIGINAL: Yoozername
I do like the 'platoon-centric' system as it constrains the human player to be more realistic.  Games that allow individual tanks to go off on free-wheeling joy rides, and the resulting borg-happy gameplay that results, seem to spoil the wargaming community. 

I'd like the game have the option for both ways. C2 platoon orders mode or a sandbox mode to move everything every which way.

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

It seems that if I order my unit to move (i.e engage-move) it never shoots on the same turn. Many times I can see a tank stop and not shoot even if there are enemies right infront of it in plain sight. I have to wait for the next turn to give it order to shoot.

Is there a somkind of long delay after move which stops the unit from shooting or is it just so that unit cant move and shoot on the same turn?

Im just used to CM when the unit stops moving and sees enemies it will aim and pull trigger. In PCO though it seems the unit instead waits for the turn timer to run out before it shoots.

I have had the same problem...nearly stopped my playing of the game because i was so frustrated. My tanks would not fire back even in clear terrain while facing a armoured recon car firing at them and eventually knocking them out. I was using the engage command if that helps.

ORIGINAL: Smertin
I have had the same problem...nearly stopped my playing of the game because i was so frustrated. My tanks would not fire back even in clear terrain while facing a armoured recon car firing at them and eventually knocking them out. I was using the engage command if that helps.

No need to be frustrated, Engage-move is dangerous when you are near to contact the enemy, better to set Advance, it is slower but safer. Here you are fighting the enemy, not the clock, if you need to move quickly but safer set the Path to Fastest or to Cover and the SOP to Cautious.

Lol, this game has always been about a game of Cat & Mouse but it seems after playing the previous titles that Ostfront has some sort of delay in reaction times that I did not see in PCWS or PCK but Im testing the new 60 second rounds thing and SOP turned "off" though sometimes I wish I had it on "cowards"! Basically, line of sight is what you need to check every now and then to make sure your units can see the enemy when you see them appear out of no where just like in CM games. The problem I run into is when giving a "Advance" order I often have to stop the tank and engage manually. If my tank were not able to see the enemy's tank or men why can I target them in the orders phase? I have even proceeded to the next turn by not taking over manually and they just kept right on going sometimes turning the turret to the enemies direction but did not fire. Like I said some sort of delay maybe related to the new 60 second turns or Line of Sight?