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This is possibly a unique formation. It is one of only two "semi-motorized" divisions in IJA,
and the only Class A Motorized Division formally. The best information about it, probably,
is in Tsujis more famous book, Japan's Greatest Victory, Britains Greatest Defeat. Col Tsuji
is a peculiar figure in history, much malaigned in the West, and because regarded as a
"war criminal" assumed to be a liar and unreliable source. He is much more complicated
than that - a true patriot and nationalist - eventually he headed a nationalist party in the Diet -
and, when ordered to do so, even became a US agent in the post war world! He was very
anti-Imperialistic, and believed in Asia for the Asiatics - so anyone who served the hated
Europeans or Americans was literally a traitor (which makes his later service very interesting:
in the post war world, many things changed - his first act was to join the KMT and one of his
lesser known books tells of his adventures with its Army - where he got along very well).
When the Cold War began, Japan became a real US ally - and his experience in SE Asia and
command of languages made him an invaluable asset to both - and he ALWAYS obeyed orders
from the Japanese Army. Anyway - to think he misrepresents things is to misunderstand why
he wrote his books. He has a point of view - but it is an ethical one from his own perspective.
He is, for example, a big fan of Churchill, and thinks he must really be a Zen thinker!

Anyway, Tsuji tells us the Fifth had TWO long weapons per line soldier - a rifle and a LMG.
These were mainly bicycle infantry, and they could carry more than walking troops. When they
came to a strong point, the troops would stop, dismount, select weapons and go tactical on foot.
Tsuji says they did not have to go back for the bikes - Malays would bring them forward - and
not steal the guns or other gear. But, even if you believe that, which I do, obviously no soldier
used both at the same time. In the tactics of the era, if an LMG is available, there is probably only
one per squad in useful service - so no TO&E should show the actual number of weapons of this type.

There are problems with the stock OB. Starting with - why does it have 1943 squads - in 1941?
Second, it appears the HMG squads assume a Japanese 13.2 mm HMG - based on US usage of HMG
to mean .50 cal. But a Japanese HMG is a 7.7 mm Type 99 (if not a 6.5 mm in a B Type unit).
Another problem is the formation is called a B type division - but it is a Class A division - and I see
NO stock formation called a Class A division at all (and if there are any, this formation isn't pointing
at one of them). Missing, entirely, is the 20 mm AT Rifle - and other weapons are somewhat
confused. In spite of that - one can see the OB really is related to the Fifth in important respects -
and many weapons are at least present in the right numbers for their type - even if not exactly the
right weapon. Other cases have the exact weapon in the wrong numbers, because this is NOT a regular
division in any sense.

The first problem is the infantry squads. It probably is incorrect to use 1943 squads in 1941. But in any case,
how do you represent them for a "semi-motorized division"? This unit has motorized logistics support regiments,
rather than draft, and it has the operational option of moving infantry on trucks rather than "marching" with
its bikes. The organization probably has 324 line infantry squads (9 per company, 36 per battalion) - but I represent
them as only 216 regular squads - and 108 motorized squads - to create the effect that motorized lift was available
when useful. Each of the companies has 2 organic HMG (before the special attachments for the invasion of Malaya)
and 2 AT rifles. There are 4 companies in 9 battalions, so that is 36 HMG and 36 ATR right there. Each battalion also
gets another 4 HMG - remember these should be Type 99 MMG as we would classify them - for another 36. Here it gets
muddy - there MIGHT be as many as 12 more AT rifles in the battalion gun company - which would be 36 more of them
as well. Regardless, each battalion gets a battalion gun company with 4 (rather than the more typical two) 70 mm
howitzers in two platoons - and in this case - likely two more platoons each with 6 AT rifles. This is class A organization,
designed by Yamashita for the not fully implemented mechanized army of the North, after returning from the Eastern
Front - having observed modern mobile units from German lines.

The Divisional artillery is well represented. There will be the usual regimental guns, 12 old
75mm pieces no longer serving in the artillery, but attached, a company to each regiment, for
direct assault purposes - and ALSO doctrinally for AT purposes. [FYI the 70 mm howitzers,
low velocity or not, are AT guns - with special HEAT rounds that became popular in other armies
post war] Before we go there, note the battalion AT companies have probably got 37 mm AT
guns - and if so these are properly represented - 4 per battalion = 36. [THIS unit MIGHT have
47 mm AT guns, but I think all these went to independent AT regiments]

The line artillery regiment is properly shown mixed - 24 75 mm guns and 12 - 105s. However,
it is likely the 75s are standard Type 95s, not the rather rare Type 90. MISSING, however,
is the attached battalion of 150s - SOP for a Class A division - especially one crafted by Yamashita.

The Div armor is different than my sources - but it may well be right. I show 20 tankettes. But
AE shows 7, with 17 light tanks. Probably it started out as the former, and the tanks were replacements
at some point, and I have no problem assuming the source material is correct to have the light tanks.

What is not so easy is the engineers. This is a motorized division, so the engineers have a platoon of
engineering vehicles in every company - and these also are missing. Stock credits the division with
48 squads of demolition engineers - and 45 more of regular engineers. The 48 makes more sense for
standard IJA formations, and IF the demo engineers are present, these are likely as elements of the line
battalions, not division engineering battalion. [Egr "regiments" are 4 sections per platoon, 4 platoons per
company, three companies in a triangular division, two companies in a binary division = 48 sections total
for a three company regiment - and no specialist demolition squads - but up to 15 vehicles]

Finally - how does one represent support? The stock OB does credit the division with motorized support -
but not quite four regiments worth. On the other hand, I don't think it is right to put in every truck - because
of logistical inefficiencies hard to represent. So I use 80% of the number of squads that are either motorized,
or truck/tractor towed/transported. Also 80% for the rest. To impose some inefficiencies. This is not a
US Army unit - even if it has support and heavy weapons more comparable to the US Army more than any
other IJA formation. 238 motorized support and 377 support squads by my estimation.

Attempting to rely on Tsuji, Masanobu is a recipe for ridicule.

5th Division had a total of 213 vehicles on 17 December, 1941, according to returns. It had 7 Toyo (small) buldozers in the engineer battalion. It had 1 bridge unit (wooden trestles). It had a standard armament for all of its infantry components. None of its opponents reported any increased firepower content for this unit, particularly the Indians and Australians who defeated it at Kampar, Muar and Gemensah Bridge. It was an ordinary Japanese Infantry division.

edit - Japanese engineer units had a large troop count, but 60% to 80% of a battalion (regiment) were labor force personnel. Untrained in weapons handling, untrained in military engineering construction. untrained in virtually any aspect of military service. Early regular IJA engineer units recruited from the Japanese peasantry. As this resource declined, Korean and Chinese peasantry replaced it. Although certain early war units had a greater proportional representation of efficient engineering personnel, the general consensus is a Japanese engineer battalion (regiment) is equivalent to a US engineer company, but without the heavy earth moving equipment inherent in the US organization.

ORIGINAL: el cid again
Anyway, Tsuji tells us the Fifth had TWO long weapons per line soldier - a rifle and a LMG.

I seriously doubt that. Was it from translation? It either means ANTI-TANK RIFLE AND LMG, or SECOND LMG for truck transported squad (like line troop, in sense of organization? Standard for west armies).

There are problems with the stock OB. Starting with - why does it have 1943 squads - in 1941?

Surprise, surprise. There is no 1943 squad in Japanese Army in AE. In fact, NONE of squad types upgrade, EVER.
There is standard, and strengthened squad, at the war beginning. Strengthened downgrades to Normal in 1943.

Second, it appears the HMG squads assume a Japanese 13.2 mm HMG - based on US usage of HMG
to mean .50 cal. But a Japanese HMG is a 7.7 mm Type 99 (if not a 6.5 mm in a B Type unit).

WWII definition of Heavy Machine Gun, is:
1) It can sustain fire for a long time (that means barrel can be cooled), so this include everything, except BAR
2) It has stable foundation, which actually means transportable tripod.
End of definition. Japan have less Soft Attack for them, so I do not see problem.

how do you represent them for a "semi-motorized division"? This unit has motorized logistics support regiments,
rather than draft, and it has the operational option of moving infantry on trucks rather than "marching" with
its bikes. The organization probably has 324 line infantry squads (9 per company, 36 per battalion) - but I represent
them as only 216 regular squads - and 108 motorized squads - to create the effect that motorized lift was available
when useful.

You have only ONE option. Either you define WHOLE unit as motorized (so it uses different movement rates), or not. Squad types do not change anything (they have identical statistics anyway, the only difference is name).

Regardless, each battalion gets a battalion gun company with 4 (rather than the more typical two) 70 mm
howitzers in two platoons

Howitzer is defined as gun with low muzzle velocity, and high possible shooting arc. You talk probably about old mountain guns.

[FYI the 70 mm howitzers,
low velocity or not, are AT guns - with special HEAT rounds that became popular in other armies
post war]

Only, after acquiring technology from Germany, so no earlier, than 1943.

the battalion AT companies have probably got 37 mm AT
guns - and if so these are properly represented - 4 per battalion = 36. [THIS unit MIGHT have
47 mm AT guns, but I think all these went to independent AT regiments]

Device 37mm AT Gun, upgrades to 47mm AT Gun, so they will upgrade, if there will be enough supply, and Armament Points.

it is likely the 75s are standard Type 95s, not the rather rare Type 90.

Same situation. 75mm upgrades to Type 90.

Finally - how does one represent support?

Put all trucks as Motorized Support, not as part of Motorized Squads. The ONLY difference is simply much more transport needed, to get Division overseas.

ORIGINAL: US87891
Japanese engineer units had a large troop count, but 60% to 80% of a battalion (regiment) were labor force personnel. Untrained in weapons handling, untrained in military engineering construction. untrained in virtually any aspect of military service.

Seems identical to all "Color" labor units in USARMY. At least I hope, they were NOT deemed "unfit for combat" by skin color?

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: US87891
Japanese engineer units had a large troop count, but 60% to 80% of a battalion (regiment) were labor force personnel. Untrained in weapons handling, untrained in military engineering construction. untrained in virtually any aspect of military service.

Seems identical to all "Color" labor units in USARMY. At least I hope, they were NOT deemed "unfit for combat" by skin color?

Pretty close. I believe the labour units on Guadalcanal were Korean. I understand the Japanese still have that prejudice.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Second, it appears the HMG squads assume a Japanese 13.2 mm HMG - based on US usage of HMG
to mean .50 cal. But a Japanese HMG is a 7.7 mm Type 99 (if not a 6.5 mm in a B Type unit).

I have no idea how you did draw this conclusion. IJA HMG Squads have 7.7mm MG's in the AE.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Another problem is the formation is called a B type division - but it is a Class A division - and I see
NO stock formation called a Class A division at all (and if there are any, this formation isn't pointing
at one of them).

No, this is no problem. 5th Division was a modified (strengthened and partially motorised) B-Type division and is reprsented as such. The IJA did not raise any A-Type divisions (or convert existing divisions to the A-Type TOE), btw.

The 7.7 mm HMG was not widely enough produced to replace the earlier 6.5 mm.
For this reason, the 6.5 should also be in service - and in greater numbers -
and should be a device.

I admit that the rifle and MG caliber situation is complex and confusing. Basically,
the entire 7.7 mm family was invented for use by Type A divisions before WWII began.
It was in particular to be used facing the Russians - and we only rarely faced class A
divisions. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is 5th Division. This
division was unusual in other respects - not least that it had motorized transport elements
in support. Another is that its infantry had bicycles - and these were well suited to its
initial campaign in Malaya - with its paved roads. But - back to the HMG situation:

first - in US usage all these weapons are usually considered MMG - although if you go to old
enough usage - you will find a HMG is based on how long it sustains fire - not its caliber.
The Japanese used that usage: there is a difference between a LMG and an "HMG" of the very
same caliber - and it is not always obvious which you are looking at? Further, the 7.7 was
essentially a scaled up 6.5 - so it is in important respects similar. But the 6.5 caliber remains
the primary one - so naturally I have made it standard. 7,7 are issued to units identified as having
them.

I do not think game actually see difference between 7.7mm, and 6.5mm. There are no separate squads for it.

So, any Japanese HMG squad can be actually 6.5mm, or 7.7mm.
But yeah, technically speaking Japanese used MMGs. Also USA had no real LMG, and Germany were generally using UMGs.

As for bicycles, I bet if you dig enough you will find them used in many places. There were LOTS of bicycles in Normandy on German side (heck, even British Paras used them). Whole 30 Schnelle Brigade was in fact bicycle mounted.