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While reading a topic on a Swedish site I found the following thing about Kursk.
German tank losses were not as large as thought earlier due to that most of the "losses" were tanks that wered damaged but was repairabled, tank losses were about 10 - 15% of hit tanks.
As well as most tanks lost during the first day of battles were damaged by the extensive minefileds laid by the Soviets, oin one area the loses were 49 tanks and 33 assault guns to mines but only 1 were destroyed.
Soviet tanks were about 75% loses due to German tankers usaly hit the tank until it burned, as well as the German tankers were better trained, better optiks and better ammunition.
Tho following figures were sent from division commanders.

Tanks and assault guns ready for battles in 2. SS-panzer korp during 11-16 july
1. SS-Pz.Gr div 2.SS div .. 3.SS div ..
11 juli time 18.35 77 95 122
12 juli time 18.35 -- 103 121
13 juli time 19.35 70 107 74
14 juli time 18.00 78 115 73
15 juli time 18.40 85 99 77
16 juli time 18.35 96 103 93


1.SS Panzer corp
11 juli time 18.35 294
12 juli time 18.35 --
13 juli time 19.35 251
14 juli time 18.00 266
15 juli time 18.40 261
16 juli time 18.35 292


Source: Tagesmeldungen PzAOK 4 v. II SS-Pz.Korps In 11.7-16.7.43, BA-MA RH 21-4/118

Does this meen the Germans loses to much tanks??

There has been a lengthy discussion about the Kursk battle in the "Maus..." thread. Just look at the following source for some detailed info (thanks to Orsha):

Kursk was a material disastor for the soviets in the south.
The best source is the comprehensive AVE II study, run by the US Army's Concept Analysis Agency, and carried out by the Dupuy Institute and Russian subcontractors Rantek.
The study makes extensive use of materials translated from the Soviet archives in Podolsk, as well as the German materials held in Washington.


Download the two reports from here. (The KOSAVE II day by day losses/units) in Excel format)
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/a...data/ssheet.zip

The KOSAVE II Overview of battle (Word format)
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/a...data/kiirep.zip

Should clear up the 50 year old soviet propaganda story.

--Mikko

Here is also losses in men
Tabell II
2. SS-panzercorp losses in men11-16 juli
1. SS-Pz.Gr.Div Dö Så Sa
11 juli 37 286 0
12 juli 39 235 5
13 juli 64 259 2
14 juli 12 75 13
15 juli 23 94 3
16 juli 16 84 3
2. SS-Pz.Gr.Div Dö Så Sa
11 juli 29 181 1
12 juli 41 190 12
13 juli 17 44 0
14 juli 58 229 0
15 juli 26 88 0
16 juli 58 166 0
3. SS-Pz.Gr.Div Dö Så Sa
11 juli 75 355 0
12 juli 69 231 16
13 juli 24 136 0
14 juli 20 154 1
15 juli 19 45 0
16 juli 17 70 2
2. SS-panzercorp Dö Så Sa
11 juli 0 1 0
12 juli 0 4 0
13 juli 0 1 0
14 juli 0 2 0
15 juli 0 0 0
16 juli 0 4 0
Dö = Dead, Så = Wounded in battle Sa = MIA
Källa: Gen.Kdo II SS-Pz.Korps, der Korpsarzt, meldungen 1.7.43 - 2.8.43, BA-MA RS 2-2/17

OOOOPPPPSSSS this is only in the Prochorovka area.

Originally posted by Chairman
While reading a topic on a Swedish site I found the following thing about Kursk.
German tank losses were not as large as thought earlier due to that most of the "losses" were tanks that wered damaged but was repairabled, tank losses were about 10 - 15% of hit tanks.
As well as most tanks lost during the first day of battles were damaged by the extensive minefileds laid by the Soviets, oin one area the loses were 49 tanks and 33 assault guns to mines but only 1 were destroyed.
Soviet tanks were about 75% loses due to German tankers usaly hit the tank until it burned, as well as the German tankers were better trained, better optiks and better ammunition.
Tho following figures were sent from division commanders.

Tanks and assault guns ready for battles in 2. SS-panzer korp during 11-16 july
1. SS-Pz.Gr div 2.SS div .. 3.SS div ..
11 juli time 18.35 77 95 122
12 juli time 18.35 -- 103 121
13 juli time 19.35 70 107 74
14 juli time 18.00 78 115 73
15 juli time 18.40 85 99 77
16 juli time 18.35 96 103 93


1.SS Panzer corp
11 juli time 18.35 294
12 juli time 18.35 --
13 juli time 19.35 251
14 juli time 18.00 266
15 juli time 18.40 261
16 juli time 18.35 292


Source: Tagesmeldungen PzAOK 4 v. II SS-Pz.Korps In 11.7-16.7.43, BA-MA RH 21-4/118

Does this meen the Germans loses to much tanks??

In therms of WIR, if you are German player and actually fight the Citadel campaign, you need to call Berlin and tell em to refine some more metal for Tiger production. In other words, it's a graveyard for the Wermacht. I don't like to tip my hand too much, but in the '43 scenario, there are other options.

In terms of history, Kursk was exhaustive to the Germans and the Soviets, but in all honesty, Soviet production at that stage of the war was dwarfing almost the entire Industrial Revolution so to speak. The Russians had men and steel to lose. The Germans did not.

Regards,

Montenegro