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Hi all,

After 2 years working & researching, I ended a full mod for WITPAE. Main objectives were to have a complete OOB fully reviewed, and to have a more realistic pacific campaign.

The mod can be downloaded there : http://up-master.com/data/SCEN31_leistermod_v1.11.zip. You need to unzip the files in the WITPAE SCEN directory. Some graphics files should be transfered in the ART directory.

Among the main changes in the mod :

Aeronautic :
- Aircraft armement : all devices have been updated (canon, mg...), based on technical data (rythm of fire, explosives charges, velocity...)
- all aircraft have all been updated (version, models...) based on technical data available
- Aircraft production have been adapted, for the allies, based on real production data (US sources) and real allocation to Pacific Theater


Vessels :
- All japan classes fully revised
- Mains classes fully revised for the allies (CV, CVL, CVE, BB, BC, CA et CL)
- Armament : updated (canons, mg, radar, torpedo, depth charges), on the base of technical data available (range, explosive charges, rythm of fire, velocity...)


Land forces : (the main effort I have done, especially with TO&E)
- Complete review of all devices related to armament (artillery, AA, mortars, mg...)
- Complete review of squads forces, based on the historical organization of squads for each country (number of soldiers, personal weapons, shared machineguns, small mortars...)
- Full and exhaustive review of the OOB for all nation
-> Added : type B and type A squad for IJA, type A having more soldiers than type B
-> Added : update of division that are not triangularised
-> Modified : chinese corps, with different types of squad based on units belong to NRA / Kuomintang, militia, feodal warlords...
-> Added : small units for guerilla in China, appearing randomly


Whole exception :
- Nothing has been modified for soviets


I have tested and verified the balance of all items that have been modified. The results of my tests (aerial fight, land battles, aircraft against ships and fleets battles) have been posted in an Excel file there : http://up-master.com/data/Witpae-Fichiers-tests.zip :
-> Aerial fight : balance is wholy respected between quality and forces of different fighters models.
-> Land fight : Japan division are initialy well equiped and strong, until 43, same for English divisions whose country is at war for a few year. With the end of 43, allies will have at their disposal better land forces, that will become superior to IJA and IJN troops, as historically, due to better squad and artillery. This is especially true for Marine Corps unit.

For this mod, I used a large variety of information sources :

Order of Battle :
- A must : http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/index.htm
- Another must : http://http://niehorster.orbat.com/000_admin/000oob.htm
- http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/nafziger/index.asp
- http://www.wwiivehicles.com


Japan :
- Excellent website : http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/Japa...HB/HB-3.html#I
- http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/
- Armored forces : http://maisov.oops.jp/e/lindc1.htm
- http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/ ... _Divisions
- http://www.combinedfleet.com/
- http://wapedia.mobi/en/Attack_on_Pearl_ ... _of_battle (for KB)
- http://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/CHS_doc ... tml#table1 (work of Andrew Brown on land units of IJA)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_ ... l_Fortress (IJN units in the Pacific)
- http://www.scribd.com/doc/44627945/Elit ... es-of-WWII (para units)
- http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4&start=30 (Thaï/Siam army)


United States of America :
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/V/USMC-V-K.html
- http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/ww ... valry.aspx
- http://books.google.fr/books?id=y56Dut6 ... on&f=false (Marine Corps)
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/V/USMC-V-K.html (Marine Corps)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... battalions (Marine Corps)
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/VII/AAF-VII-10.html (EAB US)
- http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Bui ... s-app.html (engineers units)
- http://www.cbi-history.com/part_iv_eng.html#11 (engineers units)
- http://books.google.fr/books?id=uf5Pi77 ... &q&f=false (coastal defences)
- http://www.tankdestroyer.net/index.php? ... Itemid=101 (tank destroyers units)
- http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/941UXAD.PDF (AA units)
- http://www.unithistories.com/units_inde ... erican.asp (OOB)
- http://www.cdsg.org/reprint%20PDFs/CACregList.pdf (coastal artillery)
- http://www.cdsg.org/pacific.htm (coastal defences)
- http://www.navsource.org/Naval/usarmy.htm (OOB)
- http://www.milhist.net/ordbat/ordbatusd.html (OOB)
- http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww ... loc-ac.htm (production, and OOB of aerial units of american marines in the Pacific)


Commonwealth :
- http://web.me.com/dryan671/ordersofbattle/Welcome.html (Commonwealth)
- http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/ (Commonwealth)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Br ... rld_War_II
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... rld_War_II
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Br ... rld_War_II
- http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/structure/a ... ucture.asp (Australia)
- http://riv.co.nz/rnza/index.htm (New Zealand artillery units)
- http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organiz ... cforce.htm (Canadian army in the Pacific)


China :
- http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Orders- ... s-1939.htm
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_R ... onary_Army
- http://www.alternatehistory.com/discuss ... 029&page=5


Netherlands(East Indies) :
- http://www.oocities.com/dutcheastindies/Dutch_OOB.html (aircraft)
- http://www.oocities.com/dutcheastindies ... rmour.html (tanks)
- http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.php? ... and-150-mm (coastal artillery)
- http://www.overvalwagen.com/KNILartillery.html (artillery)
- http://www.dutcheastindies.iblogger.org/index.html


Naval vessels :
- Conways All the World's Fighting Ships 1922-1946
- www.combinet.fleet (flotte japonaise)
- http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/ (netherlands fleet)


Aircraft, tanks :
http://www.wwiivehicles.com
- Combat Aircraft, de Bill Gunston, éditions Salamander
- Les avions - 4/La seconde guerre mondiale (USA, Japon, URSS...) de E. Angelucci et P. Matricardi, éditions Bordas
- Les chasseurs américains de la guerre du Pacifique, de Bernard Millot, éditions Larivière
- American Warplanes, de Bill Gunston, éditions Salamander
- The American Fighter, d'Enzo Angelucci et Peter Bowers, éditions Haynes


Vessels and aircraft armament :
- http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/index_weapons.htm (marine)
- http://www.navypedia.org/index.htm (a must)
- http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/bx119821/1668/r0.htm
- http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk (aircraft guns, a must)
- http://www.combinedfleet.com (japan marine)
- http://navalhistory.flixco.info/H/93745 ... 869/c0.htm


Land armament, squad composition, battalion organisation... :
- Le must : http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/
- http://ww2db.com/weapon.php?list=A
- http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/ww ... llery.aspx
- http://deuxiemeguerremondia.forumactif. ... -comparees (guns performance)
- http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/al ... on_adv.php (guns performance)
- http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/index.html (US vehicles)
- http://lemairesoft.sytes.net:1945/webfr ... html#18087 (tanks, artillery...)
- http://www.tarrif.net/ (artillery)
- http://nigelef.tripod.com/72inchsheet.htm (commonwealth artillery)


And several others websites, depending on specific researches I made to realize this mod.

Nota 2011/08/30 : mod updated in v1.11.

I've downloaded and am having a look.

May I suggest you pick another scenario number as the DBB scenario already has taken No 28.

There should be a register!!!

Your use of 2nd Australian IF as a command is incorrect, they should be commanded by a Corps or Army.

The 2nd AIF isnt a command, it covers all of those Australians who volunteered for overseas duty versus Commonwealth Military Forces or Militia who either volunteered for service in Australia only or were drafeted for Universal Service.

Its more like the British Territorial Army or American National Guard.

ABDACOM should be ABDA

7th Hussars Brigade and 2nd Royal Tank Brigade should be 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment. Both are British Regiments of Battalion size. (Idont add the suffix for this type of unit)

50th Tank Bde sbe 50th Indian Tank Bde

1st Aust Motor Bde & 1st Aust Cavalry Bde both start at Cairns, they are the same unit. It should be 1st Cavalry Bde and start its 2 Motor Regiments,  5th at Gympie (about 100 miles nth of Brisbane) and 11th at Gatton (Brisbane)

Give your information another check, its good to see a different approach to some of the data.

Hi Jeffk,

Thanks for your answers, goal is to tune what can be done based on information we could share. If there is others items to correct, please do not hesitate, I will check and correct each time it is needed (as long I have time to do so).

About australian forces :
There is confusion between 1st Cavalry Brigade, 1st Motorized Brigade and 1st Armoured Brigade. In fact there is one more unit that it should be. Things will be corrected in this way :
- 1st Aus Cav Bde in Cairns, that become 1st Motor Bde in April 42.
- 1st Armored Bde, that start in Tamworth and composed of 2/5, 2/6 and 2/7 armored rgt.
- 1st Motor Bde in slot 6660 will be deleted, it was redundant with 1st Armored Bde.

About 50th Tank Bde : ok renamed

About 7th Armoured Bde / 7th Hussars : in fact, 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Rgt were part of 7th Armoured Bde. Changed this in these two LCU prim unit, and changed departure date of 7th Armoured Bde to 430401. Changed name of these two subunits as you pointed.

About Abdacom : this is an abbreviation for ABDA Command. Abdacom is sometimes use, this is the same. Renamed ABDA Command.

About 2nd AIF : ok renamed back to Australia Command, It was mainly to distinguish the CMF forces that were on duty in Australia mainland, and the 2nd AIF whose aim was to send soldiers abroad.

Here the new updated version v1.01: http://up-master.com/data/SCEN31_leistermod_v1.01.zip.

Mod relocated in slot 31.

Am interested in the philosophy behind your data changes. Will only discuss off line. If you are interested in discussing, please send pm.

send me an email, and I'll return with same. We can then engage privately.

Ciao. J

ORIGINAL: leister2

Hi Jeffk,

Thanks for your answers, goal is to tune what can be done based on information we could share. If there is others items to correct, please do not hesitate, I will check and correct each time it is needed (as long I have time to do so).

About australian forces :
There is confusion between 1st Cavalry Brigade, 1st Motorized Brigade and 1st Armoured Brigade. In fact there is one more unit that it should be. Things will be corrected in this way :
- 1st Aus Cav Bde in Cairns, that become 1st Motor Bde in April 42.
- 1st Armored Bde, that start in Tamworth and composed of 2/5, 2/6 and 2/7 armored rgt.
- 1st Motor Bde in slot 6660 will be deleted, it was redundant with 1st Armored Bde.

About 50th Tank Bde : ok renamed

About 7th Armoured Bde / 7th Hussars : in fact, 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Rgt were part of 7th Armoured Bde. Changed this in these two LCU prim unit, and changed departure date of 7th Armoured Bde to 430401. Changed name of these two subunits as you pointed.

About Abdacom : this is an abbreviation for ABDA Command. Abdacom is sometimes use, this is the same. Renamed ABDA Command.

About 2nd AIF : ok renamed back to Australia Command, It was mainly to distinguish the CMF forces that were on duty in Australia mainland, and the 2nd AIF whose aim was to send soldiers abroad.

Here the new updated version v1.01: http://up-master.com/data/SCEN31_leistermod_v1.01.zip.

Mod relocated in slot 31.

I'll PM you a list of Australian at start units and suggested set up locations, some are spread out so a decision has to be taken.

1st Cavalry Bde became 1st Motor Bde, definatly by May 42 but I'll find a firm date. A problem with some locatuions is that you get the HQ location and in many cases the sub units were spread around the countryside.

Re Canberra, Australia would never consider its politicians worth defending, those units are out of place. (And the town was only about 20 years old at the time, burn it down!!!

Others I noted in a quick check, you have 2 x 2nd Armoured Rgts, the one on Brisbane should be 2nd Recce Battalion, the other structured as if a Motor Battalion but not at full strength.

8th Armoured Rgt at Melbourne should be 8th Light Horse Rgt, it became 8th Recce Bn a bit later.

13th Infantry Bde arrives in Darwin on the reo schedule , it also starts the game in Perth? (IRL the Bde moves from Perth to Darwin) I didnt check, does the original get withdrawn?

To others, an interesting idea Leister has tried is to have multple versions of the same aircraft with different arrival dates , I believe this is so you can tweak increased arrival rates rather than have a straight line for all aircraft. My only thought is you cant mix these in the same squadron but maybe it works OK.

Ok thanks Jeffk, if you have info about australian army I will update. Location of subunits is mainly based on niehorster.orbat.com OOB website, this is why you have battalion in many different locations. When the site is not defined in WITPAE, I located the unit in the nearest city, like Canberra

About the 2x2nd Armored Rgt, you are right : one is the 2nd reconnaissance rgt (ex 2/14th Light Horse Rgt), the other one is the 2nd Recon Bn of the 1st CMF Cav Div. Renamed these two units accordingly.

About 8th Light Horse Rgt subunit of the 3rd CMF Div, it was renamed as the 8th Reconnaissance Rgt right ?

About 13th Infantry Bde, this is a mistake of mine, I added it with Northern Territory Force (12th Div). As Northern Territory Force included different brigades depending on period, and as some brigades were already subunits of existing div (19th bde for 6th div for example), I choose 3rd, 12th and 13th bde to be attached to Northern Territory Force. So, 13th Australian Bde of slot 6630 has been deleted, was redundant with slot 6599. Thanks for your insight.


Last, about aircraft production and specially for US, the use of several slots for the same aircraft version is the only mean I found to allow a pseudo "production increase" with time passing. It allows to reflect the fact that new production plants were installed by the US, as it was the case for F6F, B-24, B-25...

Be careful about Niehorster, he has a lot of misnamed units, especially in the British system which he got regularly wrong, maybe a bad spellchecker.

Half right for 2nd Armoured Rgt, 2nd Recce Bn is correct, there was a 2nd Armoured Rgt though at a Motor Rgt TOE

2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse)
Formed 2nd Recce Battalion
The 2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) was a Light Horse militia unit in Queensland. On 1st October, 1918 as part of a army renumbering scheme, it became the 2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI). This scheme was adopted so that Citizen Military Force (CMF) units would take on the numerical designations of their A.I.F. counterparts which had been raised in the same areas. The 2nd Light Horse Regiment (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) adopted the battle honours of the 2nd Light Horse Regiment A.I.F.
After several redesignations, it was disbanded on 29th July, 1943.
2nd Light Horse Regiment Lineage
2nd Light Horse (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) - 1921
Linked with 14th Light Horse (West Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) to form 2nd/14th Light Horse - 1930
Unlinked to become 2nd Light Horse (Moreton Light Horse) (QMI) - 30th August, 1940
2nd Reconnaissance Battalion, Moreton Light Horse (QMI) - 1st December, 1941
2nd Australian Divisional Cavalry Regiment, Moreton Light Horse (QMI) - 23rd September, 1942


2nd Armoured Regiment.
7/12/41 1st Cavalry Division troops (Wagga Wagga would be OK)
6/5/42 4th Motor Brigade West Maitland
2nd Tank Battalion 18/9/43 Singleton 2nd Army Troops
In January 1940 the 2nd Armoured Car Regiment was renamed 2nd Armoured Regiment, after a brief renaming as 14th Light Horse Regiment in June 1940 the Regiment relocated to Cowra. At the outbreak of war the Regiment sent armoured car troops to various coastal locations.
After moving to Greta in 1942 the unit was renamed 2nd Army Tank Battalion and in July received its first Matilda II tanks.
In January 1943 all AFV and 190 personnel were transferred to 1st Army Tank Battalion. After a short period new M3 Lee Tanks were received and despite continued trained with USN LST's were not considered for deployment in New Guinea. The Regiment was disbanded in mid 1944.

8th Light Horse Regiment. (Indi Light Horse)
7/12/41 2nd Cavalry Division Troops – Werribee (Melbourne or Geelong would be OK)
The 8th Light Horse (Indi Light Horse) was a Light Horse militia unit in Victoria. It was disbanded on 7th June, 1944.
8th Light Horse Regiment Lineage
8th Australian Light Horse Regiment (Victorian Mounted Rifles) - 1903
16th Light Horse Regiment (Victorian Mounted Rifles) - 1912
16th (Indi) Light Horse - 1913
8th (Indi) Light Horse - 1918
8th Light Horse to provide nucleus for 22nd Light Horse (in 2nd Military District) - 1919
8th Light Horse Regiment (Indi Light Horse) - 1921
8th Reconnaissance Battalion (Indi Light Horse) - 1st December, 1941
8th Australian Divisional Cavalry Regiment (Indi Light Horse) - 13th July, 1942
8th Australian Cavalry Regiment - 1942
Disbanded - March, 1944


I'm interested to see how your Aircraft product idea pans out.

Mod updated following data exchange with JeffK, cf. start of the thread

-> Added : small units for guerilla in China, appearing randomly

Can you describe how this works? How do you get LCUs to appear randomly?

Well, this is a pseudo random way of doing : I added more than 30 communist guerilla units, that will appear at given date and in a given zone through China, in an attempt to simulate guerilla warfare. Using the +/- 60 days for renforcement, it allow this pseudo random way of doing.

As year will pass, these units will grow in size and strength. The IJA players will be forced to keep some strength to garrison china cities in order to garrison them to avoid damage but also to fight guerilla units.

ORIGINAL: leister2

Well, this is a pseudo random way of doing : I added more than 30 communist guerilla units, that will appear at given date and in a given zone through China, in an attempt to simulate guerilla warfare. Using the +/- 60 days for renforcement, it allow this pseudo random way of doing.

As year will pass, these units will grow in size and strength. The IJA players will be forced to keep some strength to garrison china cities in order to garrison them to avoid damage but also to fight guerilla units.

Have you tested this? I thought the game system requires LCU reinforcements to arrive at a friendly-controlled base. So long as the Japanese hold the base (I don't think they even have to garrison it) the guerilla unit won't arrive (or may appear instead in Chungking). LCU's that arrive won't grow in strength unless they have a source of supplies.

I don't mean to throw cold water on your idea -- it is excellent -- but I've seen others puzzle about how to simulate the guerrilla war vs. Japan and walk away frustrated. If you have found a way to make it work, then kudos.

Well, this is to be tested. I begin 2 differents games as Japan, I will question my opponents to know if it works.

I look forward to see your results. Good luck!

Hello Leister 2,

I have downloaded both your 28 and 31 scenario and am not able to make them work with the editor nor the game.
All other scenarios do work, even some mods of my own.
Have copied all files into scen folder except the Art.
Any ideas? I seem to be missing the aei031.dat file

Hi,

I updated the link and the zip file. You are right, the aei031.dat file was missing.

Leister2: This is monumental work and should be commended.

Can you give us some idea of your aviation changes, such as what production disfferences you found? Did you account for some production being used for new units, for instance? I'm just trying to get a feel for what you've done before diving in.

Cheers,
CC

Leister2, I downloaded the new updated link but the game says the scenario failed to load. I looked in the extracted files and the aei031.dat file is not there, any help would be apprecaited.

never mind, i found the right one. looks good so far

Hi I'm reviewing the Allied Aircraft production. There is a few type of planes with 0 production rate and 0 replacement rate.
Would please please take a look at it? For example, US Army fighter bombers P-40M and P47-25D thunderbolt.

Or may be you did this in purpose?