Matrix Games Forums

Gentlemen,

I believe that though the infantry model needs some additional development it's modelling is not bad at all even now.

There is one issue though that I believe has to be fixed as soon as possible and I believe it's not hard to fix.

The issue is an infantry squad exiting a building. When a squad is exited from a building it can only exit the direction it entered. That is a real deal breaker. If the enemy is attacking from that direction the squad is doomed even though in reality it could break contact by exiting the other side (through the windows if door isn't there) and running away.

This could be easily fixed doing the following:
Instead after pressing Z the squad should not exit but a purple rubber band should be seen which could be moved only a short distance. When the player clicks the squad would exit at the place where the rubber band goes through the wall.

I kindly ask fellow players and Matrix people to consider the things above.

Any feedback is welcome.

Artur.

I agree w/ your comments and like your proposed fix.

I also noticed this. And I also agree it needs fixing. I lost many a squad because of this. 

Interesting. I don't remember how it was originally but it was changed to exit where mounted to allow you to plan ahead. I also don't remember why it couldn't be a choice of location. We will take another look at it.

As junk2drivde says, we can take another look at it.

But it probably isn't a "quick fix". Currently mounting and dismounting buildings are 'immediate' actions that can take place while issuing orders. Right now, units dismount into the location they mount from to avoid having units be able to advance, or move to different location in between actual turns, ie, when the turn clock isn't running and they are not subject to fire.

I think we will need to address this issue before allowing a selectable dismount location.

Thanks
rick

What I propose is the very same processing as if you do now.

-Press Z
-rubberband appears
-click
-squad exits immediately.

(the same way as you mount infantry on vehicles in the setup phase just here you exit the squad )

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Interesting. I don't remember how it was originally but it was changed to exit where mounted to allow you to plan ahead. I also don't remember why it couldn't be a choice of location. We will take another look at it.

In this case you also plan ahead. It's just that you can do it in a more realistic way. The ideal solution would be to simply issue a move or whatever command and the squad would exit automatically, but I wanted to propose a change that is more easy to implement yet still allows us to do it right.

This was actually a deliberate design decision to avoid abuse of the "mount/enter" command since it is an instantaneous command. Using it in that way would allow units to get free movement and on maps with closely spaced buildings could allow them to leapfrog across a village or town.

Regards,

- Erik

This issue would only occur only in very heavily built areas. It could also be limited not more then 3 exits and entrances/turn.

Something has to be done because we lose more with this limitation than gain from it IMHO.

I imagine changing mount for buildings would change mount for vehicles as well as it looks like the same method is used.
So you could line up a number of tanks just under the dismount interval and leapfrog the troops that way in open space say across a road using directional dismount.

If you limited it to some small amount such as 3 mount/dismounts per turn this would have to be counted for each seperate mount object per unit and retained somewhere in the code. Also what happens if you mount and find you've mounted the wrong vehicle or building, do it twice and you have a WTF moment as you can't unmount from the second mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea its just that I think it wouldn't be an easy fix.

The only solution is to have dismount to be done in the movement. It becomes part of a unit's move. This would require an overhaul of the orders system.

Right now we can leap frog from tank to tank if they are close enough. Usually this makes the unit lose ground as they dismount to the rear of the vehicle.

Again, if you check and do not allow more than 3 exits and entrances/turn or let me say even just one entry and exit per turn you cannot gain that much. you also do not have that many vehicles/houses to do the chaining. (Steel panthers had similar problems)

If you cannot withdraw your infantry in a timely manner especially playing the Germans in a village environment you are doomed.

ORIGINAL: sztartur

Again, if you check and do not allow more than 3 exits and entrances/turn or let me say even just one entry and exit per turn you cannot gain that much. you also do not have that many vehicles/houses to do the chaining. (Steel panthers had similar problems)

If you cannot withdraw your infantry in a timely manner especially playing the Germans in a village environment you are doomed.

We can certainly take another look Artur, I'm just pointing out that it isn't an easy change as it needs to be done in such a way that impact other areas of the game. In the next game we will be looking at other aspects of the mount command so this would be a good time to address this.

One of the things that you can do now is make sure you select your mount point where you want to retreat from. If you are in a really bad situation, a number of the German Infantry squads carry smoke grenades that can be pretty effective in blocking LOS.

Thanks
rick

Rick I definitely got the point.

Let me say jut one last example. A very typical situation can be that the Germans are defending a village and most of the squads start the scenario placed in a building. You cannot even know exactly where your squad would exit. or you have to exit all of them and re-mount them if possible but you know if you do that to a lot of squads that can be really annoying. It is also true if your squads start the game mounted on vehicles.

Is you extend your infantry representation data by one data type Boolean hasExitedThisTurn and check this it may solve things temporarily.  Of course this is a proposal If you will look into this for me is is enough. I hope I could add many reasons to the part of the balance in favor of implementing this [:)].

We could solve it by keeping the origin point and making sure infantry can't get too far from that, even with multiple mount/enter or dismount/exit orders. Making it part of the movement is probably the best long-terms solution but I'll see if there's any way to improve this before the next release.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We could solve it by keeping the origin point and making sure infantry can't get too far from that, even with multiple mount/enter or dismount/exit orders. Making it part of the movement is probably the best long-terms solution but I'll see if there's any way to improve this before the next release.

Regards,

- Erik

Very good ideas. Just please give us a quick fix as well if possible, It would be too long to wait till the next overhaul. Thanks again for the consideration!!!

Has this been examined since then?

The only way to do it without allowing leapfrogging is to have an undo mount button. Then only one mount and one unmount can occur in an orders phase.

ORIGINAL: Mobius

The only way to do it without allowing leapfrogging is to have an undo mount button. Then only one mount and one unmount can occur in an orders phase.

How do you proceed if your squad started the turn mounted? I fully agree to allow only one mount/unmount per turn. Just let us choose where to exit / unmount.

ORIGINAL: sztartur

ORIGINAL: Mobius

The only way to do it without allowing leapfrogging is to have an undo mount button. Then only one mount and one unmount can occur in an orders phase.

How do you proceed if your squad started the turn mounted? I fully agree to allow only one mount/unmount per turn. Just let us choose where to exit / unmount.

I guess you would press unmount then string your pink rubber in the direction that you want to mount. and if clear and within 20m clickin dismounts. You can then order a move or mount. But if you mount you can not unmount. You can undo the mount to the same spot you mounted.