Matrix Games Forums

If you select a land unit in the Western USA or in Western Canada,
you can order it to move to the Eastern USA - but not to Canada.

Why not?

Pwhexe classifies some hexes in the movement columns as "off map"
and other as "Cold Zone Canada" (even in the USA) - but changing that
setting has no effect on the above.

What makes the INNER vertical column - and the top part of the outer column -
"invalid destination" but allows the OUTER column to work all the way to
Eastern USA?

What is the point of having the column to Canada appear to be "on map"
but invalid as a destination?

FYI I have a Midwest USA location in the outer column - between Salt Lake City
and Eastern USA - and you can march to it - or to any other location between
the two.

Maybe it has to do with cost. The same thing happens in Australia. There is a maximum distance-cost that the pathing code will do - beyond that it gives up. So, it's the old "You can't get there from here." You have to go somewhere else first. Instead of trying to move directly there, move to some intermediate destination. Then, somewhere along the way, set the unit to its final intended destination. Been that way since WITP.

Totally a non issue.

It would be nice if you are correct. The main reason I am skeptical is the error message is "non-valid destination" - which does not imply it is a logistical matter to me. But it is easy to test - so I will. Thanks for the idea. I sure hope it is "totally a non-issue"

Well, maybe I'm wrong and it only works for me and not for you.

Curiously enough you are only partly wrong.

I created 8 test units - in various locations - and found it varies AS I SAID - but I DO see what you report in some places.
A land unit in Eastern USA - or ANY hex of the column between there and Salt Lake City - can be told to march onto the map -
and vice versa. Same for a unit in Soviet Union off map location. But as you said, if the distance is too great, the "invalid
destination" message appears - so you cannot march to the tip of India from Soviet Union - or the tip of Alaska from Eastern USA.

But you can NOT march two hexes NE of Winnipeg - even if you are marching from Winnipeg itself. Nor can you order any
unit in any location ot march anywhere in the column from Winnipeg to Canada - or from Eastern USA to Eastern Canada.

But there is a special case - a unit in Eastern Canada will EITHER march to Eastern USA OR transit by sea (no ships required)
- your choice - a question appears! So you can use the column from Canada to Eastern USA going one direction - as long as you
do not try to stop along the way. In the same column you can stop along the way between Eastern USA and Salt Lake City.
Go figure.

In other words, what I said is fully correct, but you have chosen to lump in other phenomena to claim that I was "only partly wrong".

Good luck, I won't offer you help anymore.

I do not see how you have addressed the problem at all? The problem reported remains - you cannot march
to the column North of Winnipeg - or to Eastern Canada - in ways inconsistent with how you can march in the other
columns partly off map. How does it help to say the error will occur at great distances when that is NOT our problem
here?

If we can understand WHY you can march to the column near Eastern USA - or near USSR - vs why you cannot
move in the Canadian column - we might be able to do something useful with that understanding. I try to understand
what works and why - with a view to exploiting that understanding. Being helpful addresses the question asked -
directly. Why cannot a unit march two hexes NE of Winnipeg if it is not marching too far??

Sid, sometimes I think you are trying to be difficult. Look, the off map areas are abstract, as such only locations are locations, the 'hexes' are not hexes as they are on the map. so when you try to send some unit to the hex N of Winnepeg (why are you even trying to do that?) you are just sending that unit into the void. but you absolutely CAN march units to eastern canada (an actual location), as I just verified 30 seconds ago. It isn't that it is too far, it is that it isn't a location. However, too far is another potential problem.

stop being so snotty with people trying to help you and you would make more progress here. "Curiously enough you are only partly wrong" is just such an asshat thing to say.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I do not see how you have addressed the problem at all? The problem reported remains - you cannot march
to the column North of Winnipeg - or to Eastern Canada - in ways inconsistent with how you can march in the other
columns partly off map. How does it help to say the error will occur at great distances when that is NOT our problem
here?

If we can understand WHY you can march to the column near Eastern USA - or near USSR - vs why you cannot
move in the Canadian column - we might be able to do something useful with that understanding. I try to understand
what works and why - with a view to exploiting that understanding. Being helpful addresses the question asked -
directly. Why cannot a unit march two hexes NE of Winnipeg if it is not marching too far??

I'm not seeing the issue you're describing. True, you can't march from Winnipeg to the off-map column north of Winnipeg, but you can't march from Ogden to the off-map column north of Ogden, either. You can march from Winnipeg to Eastern Canada, just as you can march from Ogden to Eastern USA. There's no difference between the two columns.

It's no surprise that you can't select a location within the off-map column as a destination for land units, just as you cannot select the off-map holding box as a destination for task forces. These are simply abstractions, and are not valid map locations.

Actually I can march from Ogden - or San Diego for that matter - to any point in the column from the Salt Lake City area to Eastern USA -
and I have a new loation in that column - Midwestern USA - that works fine. In the other East map edge column, I have a similar loation
originally called Midwest Canada but now named Toronto - which wors fine for supplies/prodution - but one cannot start units there unless
static.

On the "North" map edge (representing West) the Russian semi-off map column is similar. You have full control in it. But I created still
another column from Iran to USSR - mainly to allow the Allies to send supplies to Russia by that route - which was a major route. From late
1942 a British spur brings the Iraninan National RR into the same hex as the on map oil port. This works fine too - for logistics - but
one could theoretically send a unit by the same route - but not in fact due to technical issues.

I am trying to understand the mechanics - and it is not at all snotty to ask a question in the hope of a useful response. It seems plain wrong
for the two Eastern map columns to have different technical behaviors - in fact the INNER one behaves less like an on map column than
the OUTER one does - the opposite of what one might expect if they were not the same. Similarly - these colums all (including the Russian one)
have inconsistent pwhexe coding - sometimes "off map" - sometimes not. Not that I have found that coding makes any difference in how units
behave. They may be coded cold zone Russia or cold zone Canada - or off map - depending on the hex - with no apparent reason. But if there is
a reason - or effect - it might contribute to doing other things.

Note a unit MAY start in Eastern Canada (which I call Montreal) and move to Eastern USA - or apparently to any other place on a shipping track -
without using ships. And in the case of Eastern USA - it also is possible to use the land column which is otherwise NOT possible to use at all for
land unit movement - a question (that must be hard coded) asks if you want to move by land or sea? Cool - but in my view inconsistent with you cannot use the other Canadian column at all for land units. I am trying to understand the logic and the way it has been implemented. I do not see how it is insulting to anyone to ask a direct, specific question? The idea that the same error message can be produced in another context is interesting - but not particularly germane to why we cannot move even one hex into the "forbidden" zone? Possibly the inner column was done at a different time from the outer column, or the Russian one, and not done quite to the same standard?