Matrix Games Forums

Hey you guys......I just discovered that the game engine will allow another RR thingie to continue onward after the first one left off. That
means we can lay rail faster than just one FDB alone. Is it an FDB or ??? That RR thingie. Maybe by doubling up we can lay rail faster
to the front lines. Worth a try. I'll let you know what I discover.

Hi Larry,

There is a diminishing return to doubling up. The maximum number of newly repaired contiguous rail lines is 6 in the Baltics, and 5 elsewhere. Given that the Baltic have (through 1941) a reduced repair cost, and that you can generally get an average of 3.5 hexes per turn elsewhere with a single FBD, you don't really get that much a benefit to doubling up.

When you have bad terrain, and lots of rivers to cross, it might make some sense to temporarily double up on vital stretches, to keep up with your spearhead, but generally, you're better spreading them out.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Hi Larry,

There is a diminishing return to doubling up. The maximum number of newly repaired contiguous rail lines is 6 in the Baltics, and 5 elsewhere. Given that the Baltic have (through 1941) a reduced repair cost, and that you can generally get an average of 3.5 hexes per turn elsewhere with a single FBD, you don't really get that much a benefit to doubling up.

When you have bad terrain, and lots of rivers to cross, it might make some sense to temporarily double up on vital stretches, to keep up with your spearhead, but generally, you're better spreading them out.

+1

Also, when a rail line zig-zags, 1 east, 1 NE, 1 east again, you can sometimes make a little headway.

In the long run, the travel time to and from the desired location usually cancels out the benefit.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
The maximum number of newly repaired contiguous rail lines is 6 in the Baltics, and 5 elsewhere....you're better spreading them out.

I did not know about that rule. Thanks for the illumination. I hear and will comply.

I use the two assigned to AGC in this fashion. Even though it's a 5 hex limit, it's still useful IMO. I get a railhead closer to the land bridge than running two parallel lines to the same area.

IF you do use 2 on one line, it is only worth the effort if they both stay on line for many turns, say 10 plus.

Pelton

ORIGINAL: Pelton

IF you do use 2 on one line, it is only worth the effort if they both stay on line for many turns, say 10 plus.

Pelton

Think about this: just to move one of your FBD units to a place where it will 'double-up' with another FBD, you're going to lose a turn, possibly more, depending on which ones are helping each other. If you decide to split them up again, you're losing another turn.

You're generally only getting 2 hexes a turn extra, maybe 3, whereas you'd be getting 3-5 hexes using the extra FBD someplace by itself. So every turn that you're gaining 2-3 hexes on that double-FBD line, you're wasting 1-2 hexes that could be done elsewhere.

Maybe there is a strategy that can be maximized on some specific rail point, but I believe that overall it's an operational loser.

You can double the RR engineers i.e. in the north, till the swamp where you can trace one line to Riga and another one to Davgoplis (and the center).

IMO, is good double then in the first turn (in south, second and may be third turn too) when they must advance trough recently conquered terrain at high cost.

May be too in the south, where the limit of advance is limited by the rail supply. There, some more hexes can be important, even decisive.

+1 to Pelton and heliodorus.

From my experience doubling up seldom justifies the effort since your loosing elsewhere. BTW, the starting points for axis rail repair often seems to be underrated.
Example FBD1 N of Lvov: usually most people start RR right there. Message to all Lvov-pocket-fanboys: bringing FBD1 down to Chernovtsy along with any PzDivs will speed up your RR to the east (Vinnitsa) by a minimum of 4-5 hexes even though you loose 2 weeks for transfer (see attachment).

Good thread on RR issues:
tm.asp?m=2784912

ORIGINAL: Balou

+1 to Pelton and heliodorus.

From my experience doubling up seldom justifies the effort since your loosing elsewhere. BTW, the starting points for axis rail repair often seems to be underrated.
Example FBD1 N of Lvov: usually most people start RR right there. Message to all Lvov-pocket-fanboys: bringing FBD1 down to Chernovtsy along with any PzDivs will speed up your RR to the east (Vinnitsa) by a minimum of 4-5 hexes even though you loose 2 weeks for transfer (see attachment).

Good thread on RR issues:
tm.asp?m=2784912

Oooo, good idea.
I'm unsure why you lose 2 turns, though (perhaps FBDs can't be moved by rail?). Couldn't you just rail it down there in 1 turn?

Rail transfer doesn't work. Rails thru Rumania seem to be unusable until 11th Army is activated.

Not only that, but the upper Dnestr can be blocked for another 2-3 turns quite easily with rearguard troops. It does aid the Soviets to figure out which lines are being repaired and block this. James stations a surrounded unit in the swamp Y-intersection south of Riga to make sure turn 2 rail repair is slower, for instance.

Agreed. But when the Chernovtsy thing really starts (by turn 3), the Lvov fanboys are on their way beyond the upper Dnestr in the north and most probably in the south of it with 11th Army, thus isolating and weakening any stiff resistance along the Chernovtsy route. Same thing goes for the Riga swamp. But basically you're right and any RR can be delayed. Nightmare: sov junk troops all along the main routes...

Wow you all are realy over looking something, but you figure it out in time.

Pelton

Don't send me emails or ask questions, because I am not saying anything because nerf bat will kill it.

Pelton

ORIGINAL: Balou

+1 to Pelton and heliodorus.

From my experience doubling up seldom justifies the effort since your loosing elsewhere. BTW, the starting points for axis rail repair often seems to be underrated.

I've never doubled-up or piggy backed FBD in 1941. Too much rail to convert and too few FBDs to advance those uber important supply tendons. Conversely I find piggy backing FBD in 1942 and in one of my 1943 PBEMs to be very handy.

Note that the distance you can go from the current railhead extends after 41, I forget to which, but it's in the manual.

I did get one PM and this other person does same as me.

You should not be letting any russian junk or their very best troops in level 2 forts stop your railheads, if Flaviusx can't stopem no one can.

Your front lines should be 20 hexes from German border by start of turn 3. Any railhead from north to south should not be having any issues with any Russian units. After that they never get to front lines until bilizzard starts.

The German units are at max strength the first 3 or 4 turns, close to border and have allot of MP's.

Adding 1 FDB to a rail line buy turn 12 will be at min 12 more hexes. Thats ALLOT if your enemy thinks your HQ build-up is 12 hexes from where it is. He will be thinking he is safe. Until you smash his lines he thought were past your supply heads and he opens his next turn and you have 2 panzer corps 10 hexes past his "safe"front.

It all depends on what your planning to do as the German player on turn 12, before playing turn 1.

It can be a waste or it can be a game changer.

Pelton

I have used this Strategy I mean multiple FDB repairing same line. It is worth to go if you concentrate more panzers in that sector too. Bad point is that using this strategy you have to neglects logistics some part of the front.
So there are pro and cons in this strategy.

As its very easy to find out exactly where the German rail line is up to, then that will only work against a Russian player who fails to check that kind of thing.

Two musts for a Soviet player every turn

-Pz/Motorised unit count and location
-Check extent of rail line (41 only, unless he goes for Case Blue!)