Matrix Games Forums

I think I found a serious flaw in the game and I wanted to run this over with ya'll. First, the flaw is not in the design of the game. The flaw is that we all know that Japan will be visited with shock and awe (the atom bomb's) somewhere during 1945. Knowing that, the Grand Stategy of the game is strongly effected.

I'm in my first full game (as allies against the AI). I'm in 1944 and I'm pretty happy with my progess. I'm positioned well on Rabaul (airfield, fortifications, supplies, ect.) and starting a slough north. A fairly historical stategy. But I am also pursuing a atypical historical strategy i.e., moving north through the Aleutian Islands and then west to Japan. My thought was to siphon off some of Japan's forces from my main push north from Rabul. So now I have captured Paramushiro-jima and Shimushiri-jima (surprisingly easy enough) and I'm thinking of starting a campaign against Toyohara (I figure that will bring them up North for sure!). Now I'm thinking, I need some of them big B-29 bombers to get this thing started up. And that's when it happened; why not just wait a couple of month's and get the two A-Bombs and finish it off?

Now it really goes off the rails. I could have just controlled the suppy lines to Australia, conducted my Northen campaign, pursure a defensive war, and waited! Not a particularly exciting game I agree.

I do have questions that I don't know the answers to. Historical questions like would Japan really surrender after only two bombs. From what I have read the surrender was a close run thing. What if they waited a week and there was no third bomb?
But mostly I have questions about issues in the game like, were the bombs guaranteed or are they on a die roll for when they show up or could they not show up at all? What if I couldn't get within B-29 range at all, could I just island hop with A-Bomb's.

Ok I'm done.
Go ahead boys, rip it to shreds.

It's not really a game flaw, it's the AI. Especially when you play as the allies if you follow a very ahistorical plan then you will throw it for a loop. Try the same strategy against a human opponent and see what happens...

What can a human opponent do? Take Pearl Harbor. Invade Alaska. Conquer New Zeland. The bombs are coming no matter what (unless Japan takes New Mexico).

I don't believe dropping the 2 A-bombs causes Japan to surrender within the game. That is not my understanding anyway ( I have not gotten that far yet ). They are just very nasty devices. You also still have to have a base within range to deliver said nasty devices.

Use of atomic bombs does not cause Japanese surrender within the game. In fact, if the Allies use too many, their victory level gets reduced.

ORIGINAL: mcissell

What can a human opponent do? Take Pearl Harbor. Invade Alaska. Conquer New Zeland. The bombs are coming no matter what (unless Japan takes New Mexico).

Achieve auto-victory and that does not require taking "new mexico." Though I am a newbie AFB, I am convinced it's very possible in scenario #2 and one of the better JFB ...The game simply does not get that far. Including what Cribtop calls Sudden Carrier Loss Syndrome and quitting.

Thanks Terminus. That takes care of most of my questions. So there is more then just two A-bombs available, but I can lose if I use to much. Now is there scenarios (out of the 14 I think) that don't allow bombs at all? If there is a question of even getting them, that makes the issue moot for me.

ORIGINAL: mcissell

Thanks Terminus. That takes care of most of my questions. So there is more then just two A-bombs available, but I can lose if I use to much. Now is there scenarios (out of the 14 I think) that don't allow bombs at all? If there is a question of even getting them, that makes the issue moot for me.

The Downfall scenario doesn't feature A-bombs.

For determination of victory levels, read s.17 on pages 263-266 of the manual.

Use too many A-bombs or wait too long to even use a couple, and your victory levels can be sufficiently reduced to the point that Japan could even be awarded a decisive victory.

Alfred

and to bring it all back to a more historical note, there is serious question as to what really brought about Japan's surrender, the A-bombs or the fact that the Soviet Union entered the fray, as Japan was pinning its dreams on using the USSR to help broker a deal with the nasty Americans. Hal

On Aug 9, 1945, the USSR opened it's 'August Storm' offensive in Manchuria. The heavy Soviet Divisions pretty much blitzed the lighter Japanese formations, inflicting substantial casualties. The battle, as well as the political maze, is discussed in several forums on line.
Bottom line:
The US, wary of Soviet intentions since the fall of Germany, was in a hurry to get a peace settlement, before Soviet forces invaded Japanese territoy; and was somewhat at odds with its own 'unconditional surrender' policy!
The Japanese, fully aware of their inevitable defeat, were put in a position where the threat of Soviet invasion of the Home Islands was very real. Knowing the historic implications of a Soviet occupation, the Japanese favored surrender to the Americans, and were favorable to that position for several months prior to the end of the war.
The Soviets were quite pleased with the situation, promising a foothold in the Japanese northern territories, at the negotiating table, with a minimal cost in time and material (and lives).

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Use of atomic bombs does not cause Japanese surrender within the game. In fact, if the Allies use too many, their victory level gets reduced.

I know, but I'm gonna drop them all anyways... just for the hell of it.[;)]