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If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:11 pm
by Feinder
What happens?
I'm just thinking ahead to when I start my first campaign game (PBEM).
I never wanted to bother with Japanese Prod in WitP (original), and I'm not really inclined now with AE.
So my question is, if you don't touch japanese production, what happens?
I understand you've got to move the resources and oil and stuff.
But if you don't touch anyting, do the factories produces "normal" amounts of replacement AC for the current models?
Or do you end up with 1000 Mitsu engines and plane types that all need Naks?
If you play with PDUs ~OFF~ will the factories upgrade in a timely manner to the new models?
What about ship building? If you don't tough production, will your ships still arrive in a nearly historic timeline?
Or do you HAVE to sit on the enima of tinkering with Japanese Production?
-F-
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:21 pm
by herwin
ORIGINAL: Feinder
What happens?
I'm just thinking ahead to when I start my first campaign game (PBEM).
I never wanted to bother with Japanese Prod in WitP (original), and I'm not really inclined now with AE.
So my question is, if you don't touch japanese production, what happens?
I understand you've got to move the resources and oil and stuff.
But if you don't touch anyting, do the factories produces "normal" amounts of replacement AC for the current models?
Or do you end up with 1000 Mitsu engines and plane types that all need Naks?
If you play with PDUs ~OFF~ will the factories upgrade in a timely manner to the new models?
What about ship building? If you don't tough production, will your ships still arrive in a nearly historic timeline?
Or do you HAVE to sit on the enima of tinkering with Japanese Production?
-F-
I believe not managing the factories eventually destroys your economy.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:22 pm
by plund
IIRC you absolutely have to turn on some Kate production as the GC starts with a rate of zero.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:47 pm
by Mike Solli
The lack of Kates is the big one. In addition, You'll produce obsolete models such as the Nate and Ida, to mention a couple. You have to manage the Japanese economy or you're doomed much earlier than history.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:36 pm
by KenchiSulla
If you don't want to run your production, go allied.. it is your only hope for a fun game
EDIT: I am one of the geeks who likes the minigame "production"... I have spend countless hours trying to find a good path to standardise my aircraft and engine production....
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:40 pm
by Feinder
Ok, good info.
So on the heels of that...
What if there was a mod that offered "static" Japanese production such as airframe replacements etc (similar to Allied), and/or ship production (as Allies). Would that even be do-able? Would it be playable? Obvioulsy, the only point of the facilities then would be to bomb them for points.
I guess a major flaw would be that also frees-up the Japanese merchant fleet and escorts from having to haul materials for production, so it would require some kind adjustment there. You don't want to just remove or lock the ships down - because they also serve as targets and vps.
I'm just trying to see if there's a way to come up with a "Japanese (Minimal) Proudction for Dummies" scenario.
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:37 pm
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
If you don't want to run your production, go allied.. it is your only hope for a fun game
EDIT: I am one of the geeks who likes the minigame "production"... I have spend countless hours trying to find a good path to standardise my aircraft and engine production....
and here i thought the reason i keep losing as Japan was because of my military skills. In reality it was my skills as an economic planner that tripped me up. [:D]
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:59 pm
by KenchiSulla
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
If you don't want to run your production, go allied.. it is your only hope for a fun game
EDIT: I am one of the geeks who likes the minigame "production"... I have spend countless hours trying to find a good path to standardise my aircraft and engine production....
and here i thought the reason i keep losing as Japan was because of my military skills. In reality it was my skills as an economic planner that tripped me up. [:D]
My recruits are really happy with all the shiny planes I am producing but that never lasts... I regularly forget to set escorts for my flying aviaton fuel bombs (AKA G4Ms...) because I am obsessing with production figures...
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:29 pm
by n01487477
ORIGINAL: Feinder
Ok, good info.
So on the heels of that...
I'm just trying to see if there's a way to come up with a "Japanese (Minimal) Proudction for Dummies" scenario.
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
I'm in the process of doing a few things but they might not come to fruition in the timeframe you want.
1. Making the GC scenario basically set up for Japanese production from the get-go. The problem is convoys which can't be made CS. I was doing this as a tutorial for new players. Which I guess could also be modified/expanded at that point for auto production of a/c etc. Sort of an Allied economy for Japan.
2. Creating a doc for Japanese Econ 1st turn setup - a step by step guide. Taking into account everything I would do & taking views from the forum from other economic giants such as Mike (and too many others to name here.)
3. Have a 1st turn DB system (this would require some of the IJN/IJA players offering their first turns to be studied/used by others)
Lastly - if none of this seems like your cuppa. Then how about I become your economics minister. I'll sets it up, have a look once a month and tinker with it ... you can be hands free or alternatively take some advice from me and learn the system. Which once running can be fun and not that burdensome.
Regards
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:36 pm
by SgtSwanson
IMHO points 2 and 4 make the most sense to me. Isn't there a list somewhere of what planes to scrap from the get go? I know there used t be one for the original game. My problem on the Allied side is that I now have to choose between upgrade and keep. And I'm still trying to figure out what the upgrade means. Does it mean that the factory itself gets bigger like Boeing's Seattle plant, by building a whole seperate plant for the B-29s? Or does it have it's own plane upgrade path? Like going from the P-51B to the P-51D version?
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:39 pm
by n01487477
ORIGINAL: SgtSwanson
IMHO points 2 and 4 make the most sense to me. Isn't there a list somewhere of what planes to scrap from the get go? I know there used t be one for the original game. My problem on the Allied side is that I now have to choose between upgrade and keep. And I'm still trying to figure out what the upgrade means. Does it mean that the factory itself gets bigger like Boeing's Seattle plant, by building a whole seperate plant for the B-29s? Or does it have it's own plane upgrade path? Like going from the P-51B to the P-51D version?
Upgrade means the plant will convert to the next plane model in the upgrade sequence. Keep means that it will ignore this and stay the same. No size enhancements.[;)]
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:24 pm
by undercovergeek
ORIGINAL: n01487477
ORIGINAL: Feinder
Ok, good info.
So on the heels of that...
I'm just trying to see if there's a way to come up with a "Japanese (Minimal) Proudction for Dummies" scenario.
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
I'm in the process of doing a few things but they might not come to fruition in the timeframe you want.
1. Making the GC scenario basically set up for Japanese production from the get-go. The problem is convoys which can't be made CS. I was doing this as a tutorial for new players. Which I guess could also be modified/expanded at that point for auto production of a/c etc. Sort of an Allied economy for Japan.
2. Creating a doc for Japanese Econ 1st turn setup - a step by step guide. Taking into account everything I would do & taking views from the forum from other economic giants such as Mike (and too many others to name here.)
3. Have a 1st turn DB system (this would require some of the IJN/IJA players offering their first turns to be studied/used by others)
Lastly - if none of this seems like your cuppa. Then how about I become your economics minister. I'll sets it up, have a look once a month and tinker with it ... you can be hands free or alternatively take some advice from me and learn the system. Which once running can be fun and not that burdensome.
Regards
holy **** Damian - is this offer open to all those in need of a nudge in the right direction??
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:43 pm
by n01487477
ORIGINAL: undercovergeek
ORIGINAL: n01487477
ORIGINAL: Feinder
Ok, good info.
So on the heels of that...
I'm just trying to see if there's a way to come up with a "Japanese (Minimal) Proudction for Dummies" scenario.
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
I'm in the process of doing a few things but they might not come to fruition in the timeframe you want.
1. Making the GC scenario basically set up for Japanese production from the get-go. The problem is convoys which can't be made CS. I was doing this as a tutorial for new players. Which I guess could also be modified/expanded at that point for auto production of a/c etc. Sort of an Allied economy for Japan.
2. Creating a doc for Japanese Econ 1st turn setup - a step by step guide. Taking into account everything I would do & taking views from the forum from other economic giants such as Mike (and too many others to name here.)
3. Have a 1st turn DB system (this would require some of the IJN/IJA players offering their first turns to be studied/used by others)
Lastly - if none of this seems like your cuppa. Then how about I become your economics minister. I'll sets it up, have a look once a month and tinker with it ... you can be hands free or alternatively take some advice from me and learn the system. Which once running can be fun and not that burdensome.
Regards
holy **** Damian - is this offer open to all those in need of a nudge in the right direction??
As I don't have time to get into a full GC, except for Floyd and I toying with small scenario's; I like to keep my hand in and help those that need it. I can do, what I can do, when I have time... so I guess I'm saying that this offer is open ... as long as you pass along the knowledge you gain to others in the future.
* Disclaimer - I'm not a master, there are many ways to skin a cat & most of the time you learn more by doing it yourself (with a little direction).
This is why I'm doing this:
2. Creating a doc for Japanese Econ 1st turn setup - a step by step guide. Taking into account everything I would do & taking views from the forum from other economic giants such as Mike (and too many others to name here.)
Cheers
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:49 am
by Mac Linehan
Original:
holy **** Damian - is this offer open to all those in need of a nudge in the right direction??
As I don't have time to get into a full GC, except for Floyd and I toying with small scenario's; I like to keep my hand in and help those that need it. I can do, what I can do, when I have time... so I guess I'm saying that this offer is open ... as long as you pass along the knowledge you gain to others in the future.
* Disclaimer - I'm not a master, there are many ways to skin a cat & most of the time you learn more by doing it yourself (with a little direction).
Damian,
As you are one of the two Tracker Boys (concept and implementation) who put together that awesome tool, I respectfully submit that you have probably forgotten more about Japanese Economics than I have ever learned - and I am working hard at it.
A Mike Solli / Damian Tracker Boy School of Economics student wannabe Mac.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:41 am
by Puhis
ORIGINAL: Feinder
So my question is, if you don't touch japanese production, what happens?
I understand you've got to move the resources and oil and stuff.
-F-
If you don't touch production, you're screwed. It is that simple.
For example, you eventually run out of shipyard points. You can't produce even historical number of planes. Actually, nowhere near historical number of planes, maybe something like 30 %...
You just have to manage economy if you want to play Japan.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:11 am
by Canoerebel
ORIGINAL: Feinder
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
That's exactly how I feel about playing Japan. Production sounds to me like pilot training without the fun, of which there is arguably no fun in pilot training either.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:13 am
by Canoerebel
Cannonfodder, do you realize the soldier on the right in your signature is brandishing what appears to be a perfectly good bottle of root beer? He should be careful with that; either drink it or share it with his comrade, but don't shake the bottle recklessly...
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:09 am
by FatR
ORIGINAL: Feinder
What happens?
I'm just thinking ahead to when I start my first campaign game (PBEM).
I never wanted to bother with Japanese Prod in WitP (original), and I'm not really inclined now with AE.
So my question is, if you don't touch japanese production, what happens?
Allies kill your puny airforce (starting air factories need to be expanded threefold-fourfold to achieve historical levels of production), while you produce excessive amounts of armaments and merchant shipping.
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:52 am
by ChezDaJez
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
ORIGINAL: Feinder
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
That's exactly how I feel about playing Japan. Production sounds to me like pilot training without the fun, of which there is arguably no fun in pilot training either.
Yes, but look at it this way... it's the perfect excuse for not being able to win the war. I can always claim that it wasn't my military prowness that lost the war... it was that dang beancounting that did me in!
Chez
RE: If you don't touch Japanese Production
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:14 am
by USSAmerica
ORIGINAL: Feinder
Ok, good info.
So on the heels of that...
What if there was a mod that offered "static" Japanese production such as airframe replacements etc (similar to Allied), and/or ship production (as Allies). Would that even be do-able? Would it be playable? Obvioulsy, the only point of the facilities then would be to bomb them for points.
I guess a major flaw would be that also frees-up the Japanese merchant fleet and escorts from having to haul materials for production, so it would require some kind adjustment there. You don't want to just remove or lock the ships down - because they also serve as targets and vps.
I'm just trying to see if there's a way to come up with a "Japanese (Minimal) Proudction for Dummies" scenario.
I wouldn't mind playing Japan in PBEM, but I don't want all the pain of micro-managing production.
Otherwise, I'm "stuck" always playing Allies.
-F-
Feinder, it sounds like you need a 2x2 game with a partner who enjoys managing the economy. [;)]