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Just for kicks I've made all German and Soviet SU's as playable on-map combat units in the 41-45 GC.

Why in the hell would anyone do that you ask?[X(]

Well, two main reasons...
First, I don't like the "chancey" way SU commitment is handled. If I want a particular SU to participate in battle, it's gonna participate!
Second, I hate the fact that it's a rare occaision to actually destroy a SU. They get to magically warp out of any pocket with their HQ.

So, to do this I had to invoke some trickery. For some reason, a battalion or smaller on-map unit will fade into the ether if it moves next to an enemy unit...so I had to make them all Regiments.
Battalion-sized units are depicted as 'Regiment (-)'
and Company/Battery-sized untis are depicted as 'Regiment (--)'

Please note that I have not play-tested this at all beyond half of the first turn as the Germans. I have no idea on the effect on Armaments, supplys, movement points and other such things...I have made all German arty battalions into 'reserve' status and the commitment level seems quite high despite the overloaded HQs. No combat units on the stock scenario were moved to different locations except for several HQs. I also do not know the exact locations where these new units should be on the map, but I've generally kept them close to their supporting HQs.

One other problem (besides wildly overloaded HQs[8D]), is that after turn 1, all artillery, AA, and engineer Motorized units will automatically revert to Non-Motorized. It sucks, but nothing I can do about it. If you really need that unit to the front, you can burn a few trucks to temporarily Motorize it. Historically, the Panzer and Motorized troops frequently left their own internal artillery support way behind, so this does not bother me so much.

I also made a few TOE changes:
1. SP Infantry Gun Coys (701. - 706.) are now part of the relevant Panzer Division TOEs.
1.,2.,5.,7.,9.,10. Pz.Div. use 41b to 42c to 42d to 43a Panzer Division TOEs.
2. Several Soviet Artillery Regiments had their names changed from "Corps" to "Corp". These were causing a Corp-sized graphic in the game.
3. Hanko now has one Fort unit, a new fort TOE that has double the weapons of a Fortified Region, plus the 1st and 2nd Sapper Regiments, the 124th Sapper Battalion, and the 18th, 93rd, and 236th PVO AA Battalions. The 297th Separate Tank Battalion and 8th Rifle Brigade are also at Hanko.
4. The Soviet 8th Rifle Brigade also has an new unique TOE. In stock, the unit is 310% over TOE, and will lose most of this punch after the first turn. If it survives the onslaught, it will revert to a regular Rifle Brigade in 3/42.

Lastly, all AA units assigned to cities are also on the map. I've set them for both sides to 'Static'. The German AA Regiments I've renamed to "Stab/XX AA Regiment".

Extract the 1941-45 Campaign TEST.scn to C:\Matrix Games\Gary Grigsby's War in the East\Dat\scen
It uses the new internal data feature so will not mess up any other scenarios and all data is updated to 1.05.42.
Have fun and Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Crazy idea but EXTREMELY interesting.

It has some snags though:

* Soviet can't build any SU's other than Construction and RR Brigades
* The 3-unit per hex stack limitation makes things too cluttered (for both sides). I'd say that Engineer and other SU's would lose effectivity because of this.

However, here you hit something really interesting, man. One of the biggest problems I see with the Germans is that they can't handle their artillery well:

* They can't mass artillery as they historically could
* They can't control the ARM points consumption of artillery (SU's are always in Refit Mode).

but making GE artillery an on-map unit allows to add it to deliberate attacks. And that's a HUGE change.

I would suggest you to try to revert back to off-map units all Soviet SU's and all German SU's other than artillery. I think we'd have a VERY interesting mod.

Thank you for this, this is the kind of "out of the box" thinking we need

Thanks for the comments B_G.

* Soviet can't build any SU's other than Construction and RR Brigades

This is intended. All other SUs are now Combat Units.

* The 3-unit per hex stack limitation makes things too cluttered (for both sides). I'd say that Engineer and other SU's would lose effectivity because of this.

Maybe initially. But I think once the map opens up, it will become much less so. Most of these new units should be used one hex back from the frontlines (on Reserve status). I really despise the 3 unit per hex mechanic....every other operational wargame I've played has some kind of Density modifier built into it....maybe WitE 2.0?

I would suggest you to try to revert back to off-map units all Soviet SU's and all German SU's other than artillery. I think we'd have a VERY interesting mod.

Actually my initial plan was to only include playable Armor and SP Artillery SUs. (I'm a StuG fanboi[8D]). It wouldn't take too much work to make an only Artillery playable mod, or everything but AA units...or you get the idea.

Thank you for this, this is the kind of "out of the box" thinking we need

Thanks....I have four days off to test this beast out.[8D]

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

Thanks for the comments B_G.

* Soviet can't build any SU's other than Construction and RR Brigades

This is intended. All other SUs are now Combat Units.

I guessed that, the problem is that former SU's don't show as buildable combat units.

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

* The 3-unit per hex stack limitation makes things too cluttered (for both sides). I'd say that Engineer and other SU's would lose effectivity because of this.

Maybe initially. But I think once the map opens up, it will become much less so. Most of these new units should be used one hex back from the frontlines (on Reserve status). I really despise the 3 unit per hex mechanic....every other operational wargame I've played has some kind of Density modifier built into it....maybe WitE 2.0?

Perhaps, but with the 3-per-hex-limit - something we can't negotiate at the moment - you wouldn't be able to concentrate 12 units in one single hex (3 SU's attached to each German division), even with Reserves. Reserve commitment chances decreases sharply as the number of units committed as reserves increases. While the point of reserves stands, it certainly removes for the Axis the ability to bolster the offensive capability of some units, since reserve commitment is chance-based, while attached SU's always commit to battle.

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

I would suggest you to try to revert back to off-map units all Soviet SU's and all German SU's other than artillery. I think we'd have a VERY interesting mod.

Actually my initial plan was to only include playable Armor and SP Artillery SUs. (I'm a StuG fanboi[8D]). It wouldn't take too much work to make an only Artillery playable mod, or everything but AA units...or you get the idea.

Having the German artillery as on-map units (and perhaps the bigger mechanized SU's for employment as reserves) would make an sterling mod for the GC. I'd leave the Engineers - for the attack and entrenchment - and AAA units - for AT defense - as SU's, so the German player can manage them most efficiently.

ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

Thank you for this, this is the kind of "out of the box" thinking we need

Thanks....I have four days off to test this beast out.[8D]

Keep us posted I do really think you hit here a really great idea!

I guessed that, the problem is that former SU's don't show as buildable combat units.

Gods cuss it - you're right....buildable Soviet units are hard-coded![:@]