Matrix Games Forums

Hi all,

I have been playing st. Vith with the new patch and I am getting frequent messages on day 2 and 3 that my supplies are being interdicted. I can make some guesses at to where this is happening, and I have seen the AI make some surprising counter-attacks and also some infiltrations that I think are causing this. I hadn't encountered this to this level pre-patch, so I am trying to develop better security ideas, but I am not sure how much of the forces available I need to strip off. I have had to pull back one mech inf formation just to hold off a counter attack on the initial crossing. My fault as I didn't put out security far enough away to detect the issue early on. But the 318 is not sufficient to handle this by itself. Great work by the AI and has totally thrown my timetable into the can.

So what are some good security tips and how to you reduce supply interdiction?

Thanks,

Kill units... they can't interdict if they've been mopped up [:D]

Push - hard, if he is busy trying to secure St Vith from dawn on Day 2 because you have a whole RCT sat on it, he probably won't be sending much to trouble Steinbruck...
Also if he is trying to extricate his own bases and HQ from being overrun...

I bring the Regt Bases forwards, they support each Regt from a position just out of sight behind the troops - the short distances minimise wandering supply lines passing into enemy territory (avoidance, cautious, but not able to avoid unknown enemy forces). Division secures either the bridge at Steinbruck or remains on the SEP, according to mood - later I may even feed it to the secondary road passing SE from St Vith, removing the supply line orientation from across the front of Peiper to being from my rear to my front aligned into Peiper's flank... [;)]

Artillery and HQ can secure the rear areas - I tend to place several to the approaches to Steinbruck (important as it is the MSR from the south).
If the area around Lommersweiler is cleared (frequently this is delayed somewhat) then I'll leave only artillery/supply/HQ in this area and push the FLOT out to cover all main approaches from the West. Otherwise, I just leave 51st AI in the area of Lommersweiler to deal with his probes - keeping the objective isn't as important as denying it to the enemy, so 318 would 'do' but it is more useful screening or sweeping the woods to the East.

I try to keep dedicated artillery (the two Bn with CCA, and one each with CCR and HQ 4Arm'd) as closely associated with the supply unit as possible. I also try to use the 94th (CCR) and 155mm (4th Armd HQ) more than the two 'at start' Bn, and to use CCB and CCR as my main fighting units on Days 2-5, as CCA will probably have taken some losses on day 1, and will also have a higher supply burden from the attached artillery.

You are talking about the tutorial _Tutorial Return to St Vith, right? Assuming so, these are my observations...

The Germans LOVE to put units near the road from Breitfeld to St. Vith. Usually they are to the west of the road, which is nasty. They are on high ground --75 meters higher -- and they are hard to see. But a unit hidden in the pine forest to the east of the road is even MORE deadly; a unit there has a better view of the road than the road has of it. Ever try to dislodge one? A very difficult task.

As for managing the problem, Lieste has that covered. I think his approach in a nutshell is to position your base to make it use safer supply routes, and keep these supply routes clear.

Too bad the supply AI isn't better. If your trucks are getting smashed on a particular route, use another one. Duh. A neat feature would be an ability to override the AI's choices.

Thanks to all,

I was doing some of what Lieste describes, but I wasn't moving the supply forward as well.  So the lines were too long for that reason.  But I have never been doing that, and not had this issue before.  I well, I am really enjoying learning how to play this game.

I was really surprised that the AI sent 14 Panther deep into (past my lines) my western-flank while I was trying to use a recon force to flank this force heading south-south east out of St. Vith.  Quite a bit of a tangle.  The Panthers are wreaking heck, but they are about to get a bunch of Suarts up their rear while they are engaged with my forces to the north of their position.  SHould be interesting.  If they chew me up too badly, then I may have to say this is a failed attack and re-group my forces.

Thanks for the great suggestions.  I would love to see a AAR by Lieste sometime....

SNAFU

You'd probably weep for poor old Peiper... [:D]
About half the time he doesn't even survive to the end date. (A small part of that is that I've played it through a few (dozen) times, but I haven't changed the basic strategy I adopted on the first run-through - some variability in reaction due to AI variations and success/failure of various movements on the first attempt, but the core plan is a constant.

Some variation on Day 2-3 combat depending on who gets St Vith first (depends on how successful the clearing of Steinbruck is on the morning of Day 1 - I've been tied up at the bridge still on Day 2 a very few (embarrassing) times...)

If CCB gets a free run then 12VGD and Peiper are doomed

Supply question...

When I first started playing, I moved my supply bases up because I assumed that it would make supply "better."

One of the fundamental factors of warfare logistics is outrunning your supply lines. The further your units are from your depot, the fewer tons of supply your trucks can move per day.

I assumed that BftB models this, but now I'm not so sure about it. I wonder what happens when a base's trucks are destroyed -- how is that modeled?

Regardless, I have been moving bases to help with supply, but it is now going to be a central part of operations.

I like to move bases near road junctions so that multiple portions of the operations area are accessible. I NEVER put a base where there is a single entry/exit point. Using St Vith as an example, leaving the bases at the bottom of the map is bad bad bad. I at least put them in the general area of Lommersweiler.

Supply takes time for delivery, based on loading, unloading and transit time. There isn't much you can do to speed the transshipment, but the effect of distance (and terrain) on supply delivery is easily demonstrated...

Start with your units dispersed in various locations, and move then time the supply requested/supply arrived for each unit... those on major roads and short distances from the base will get supply much faster than those a longer distance &/or on poor roads or in bad going.

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU

Hi all,

I have been playing st. Vith with the new patch and I am getting frequent messages on day 2 and 3 that my supplies are being interdicted ...

Supply interdiction is not unusual along a contested MSR, but I have also noticed that when I give delay, or withdraw orders to a command, its supply base doesn't seem to move, leaving it very vulnerable.