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I just started to check out the newest patch; and unless my memory is completely shot, it appears as if the 25th and 16 MTZ Divisions are now fixed, which effectively does in the Lvov pocket...or am I hallucinating?

And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).


Well done [:)]

Its a Soviet Fan Boy patch remember

Wait till you see that the Tiger Tank has been replaced by bicycle recon units[;)]

In all seriousness, you'd thought somebody might have mentioned that as its quite important......

Huh? I just started a new game against Baelfin and he did a Lvov pocket just fine.

Aircraft losses on the surprise turn were surprisingly low, though. Right around the same 2k you're reporting. Wasn't expecting that.

Marquo, you are indeed, hallucinating. Those two Motorized Divisions have always been frozen on turn 1. They, along with the rest of PG 1, activate on turn 2.

Yup, but see the paranoia that's out there now...

And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).

Same for me (2,190 already).

Regards

No - something is not right? There are only now only 4 armored divisions from the 1st Panzer Group with are mobile on T1; the 24th Pz Corps releases on T2 - I think this is different. Perhaps the pocket can be done if the 24th Pz Corps from AGC is diverted south....are you guys sure??????

[X(]

Panzers are fine, air losses on T1 are markedly lower.

Okay, I'm just paranoid - but still.....

ORIGINAL: Marquo

No - something is not right? There are only now only 4 armored divisions from the 1st Panzer Group with are mobile on T1;

Same as it ever was...

ORIGINAL: Marquo

the 24th Pz Corps releases on T2 - I think this is different.

You mean the 14th (XIV) Pz Korps, don't you? That was always frozen on turn 1.

ORIGINAL: Marquo
Perhaps the pocket can be done if the 24th Pz Corps from AGC is diverted south....are you guys sure??????

I generally use the XXXXVI Pz Korps from PG 2 to assist. Also, some of the infantry and the cavalry from XXIV Pz Korps. But, yeah...I'm sure...[;)]

Marquo what ever you do don't elaborate on my version of the Lvov pocket. Or poor old Flav will have a fit.

Michael,

With time and the perspective of many PBEMS, AARs, and history, it seems that the the Lvov pocket as it plays out in WITE, sets the stage for a domino effect which has resulted in deep introspection; this introspection has resulted in many good patches and updates; but IMHO the fundamental issue of supply has not really been addressed.

My opinion (FWIW): revisit the logistical rules and the Lvov pocket.

Marquo [:)]

As usual Marquo you offer a reasonable and well balanced view.

ORIGINAL: Marquo

I just started to check out the newest patch; and unless my memory is completely shot, it appears as if the 25th and 16 MTZ Divisions are now fixed, which effectively does in the Lvov pocket...or am I hallucinating?

And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).


Well done [:)]

I can't comment about the Lvov Pocket, but I have started 4 games just to bomb Russian airfields and the most Soviet aircraft I have destroyed is 2122.

Yeah I expected the number would shrink after the earlier patch. They went from 50% to 33% for planes hitting airfields even on turn 1. It shold have been left at 50% for turn 1.

ORIGINAL: sath

Yeah I expected the number would shrink after the earlier patch. They went from 50% to 33% for planes hitting airfields even on turn 1. It shold have been left at 50% for turn 1.

I agree. At first I thought I was dreaming when the number of commie air planes I destroyed fell by about 60%.

Pavel made some changes to the air combat model so aircraft would not use drop tanks to kill enemy ground units, tac bombers would not use their defensive guns (only forward) or level bombers would not use any guns at all (they are assumed to be bombing from high above, out of effective range of their guns).
This may have influenced the aircraft bombing results.
Remember how surprising it was for an infantry squad to be killed when an aircraft drop tank fell onto their head(s).

Question is, is it too little now? Seems ~2-4,000 losses in the opening days is the most common figure in books etc, but that was accomplished by a Luftwaffe that was also flying CAS, interdiction, etc. In game, the player must commit 100% of his air missions to airfield strikes just to reach the low end of those numbers.

*oops, didn't mean to post again, please delete

the player must commit 100% of his air missions to airfield strikes

it is physically impossible.