Matrix Games Forums

Hi, I started playing about a month ago. I've got a lot of stuff figured out, have played strategy games forever (SNES PTO2!) and have always been big into the Pacific War.

So I've got some questions. I've dug around in a lot of topics here and found answers to almost everything, and other stuff I've just figured out as I've played, but here's my current conundrum:

I seem unable to transport aircraft with the Aircraft Transport mission. I am using 2 AKVs at San Francisco, they are set to Aircraft Transport. The air groups I would like to load are not in restricted commands. I have tried "Load troops" and selecting the air group (25 P-40Es in each of the two groups I would like to load). I verify the load and it says I have like 2560 percent extra cargo space, though it's in red and I don't know what that means, but the next day they're sitting in port - empty. How do I load them?

The ships are docked. I have tried "transfer to docked ship", but no ships are listed. I have tried adding a couple of AKs to the TF, which makes the extra cargo space number rise to something like 3500 percent extra but is still in red. Do I need to add yet more AKs to the TF before I can load? The Tender/Auxiliary guide thread leads me to believe that all I need to do is click "Load troops" .

Help please!

My guess is that they did load - and unloaded again during the turn resolution. Did you remember to set the TF to "Do Not Unload"??

I don't have to set other TFs (Transport, Amphibious) to "Do Not Unload" when loading their cargo, though. Is Aircraft Transport different?

Also, the TF doesn't have a destination set, it's simply sitting there in port. I will try setting to Do Not Unload, but I'm honestly suspicious that something else is going on.

Here's the thing - when the TF arrives at it's destination it will unload unless you have it set to not unload. You confirmed that it had no destination. That means it will unload as soon as it finishes unloading. Try it. You will see. Play around with different combinations until you get a feel for how things work. It's the best way to understand it.

I guess I just don't understand why it's working that way for air groups, but in other transport TFs it doesn't make a lick of difference. The troops in those finish loading and stay on the transports, whether I have no destination or I've just made the TF and the destination and home port have defaulted to the current port .

But has those other transports finsished loading? If the do and don´t have a destination set they will unload.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I guess I just don't understand why it's working that way for air groups, but in other transport TFs it doesn't make a lick of difference. The troops in those finish loading and stay on the transports, whether I have no destination or I've just made the TF and the destination and home port have defaulted to the current port .

both types of TFs (airtrans & trans) as well as cargo, tanker, & amph TFs behave the same way - if they're not set to 'do not unload' & not given a destination, they'll immediately start to unload in their present hex as soon as they've finished loading. AO & AE replenishment TFs will do the same.

Lokasenna, witpqs provided you the most likely explanation. Set to "do not unload" and the problem is gone.

San Francisco is a huge port, so is able to load a smaller TF in one phase easily, and then start unloading again.
Air groups are always loaded first, and always unloaded first. This means, even if the total unload is not completed yet, the air group already is unloaded again
right after the phase starts.

As jmalter said, this behaviour is similar to all TF types that can load stuff. Depending on ship type, port size, and total TF size the cargo transfer rates differ, so thats
the reason you might witness different situations between turns depending on the port (+ present naval support), the TF in question, and the ship types in that TF.

Yeah, right now I have 4 Amphibious TFs sitting in San Francisco that say "Loading complete" and have for days, waiting for escorts. They have been set to "Unload Cargo", and still have the default destination/home port of San Francisco. See pic.


I mean, it makes sense that it would work like you say, but I thought it would work the same for all types of Cargo TF. I think I have noticed that Replenishment TFs with AO and AE type ships do unload like my Aircraft Transport TF has been doing... Maybe it's just different with LCUs?

Anyhow, I really appreciate all the help. I am about to start the resolution for the day and hopefully I have two fresh Pursuit Groups on my AKVs tomorrow [&o]


Cheers, that did the trick!

I've never had trouble loading aircraft onto xAKs using a regular transport TF. Have you tried that instead of an aircraft transport mission?

I had before and they never showed up. I suspect they unloaded during the turn resolution as above... It's just weird that this only seems to go for air groups.

Unloading is not the real problem here.

1. The OP is trying to load two air units simultaneously into the same Air Transport TF which has 2 AKV. Don't do it. Have only one AKV and load only one air unit.

2. The OP gets to the verify stage and because he sees the answer in red, he fails to click on the "accept" button. Loading air units on either an Air Transport or Transport TF is always verified in red. No air unit is anywhere big enough to need more than a single merchantman to carry the unit. Loading ground units are verified in white, with orange used when there is insufficient total lift capacity.

Alfred

BTW Lokasenna- as someone new to the forum- it's worth mentioning that Alfred knows what he's talking about. He's like the living revised manual.

ORIGINAL: Alfred
1. The OP is trying to load two air units simultaneously into the same Air Transport TF which has 2 AKV. Don't do it. Have only one AKV and load only one air unit.

Alfred, I never limit my air transport TFs to 1 AKV only on load, and never experienced any issues. In UV/WitP you were better off loading single units and afterwards
combining to a large TF, but with the new verification system in AE I never witnessed any problems, even "add ship to TF" works as a charm.

Is there any known problem with loading several air groups on a multi-AK TF?

I was clicking 'accept' on the verify load. On the regular TF screen it would say 1% capacity, loading had clearly begun. Anyhow, they were obviously unloading later on in the phase - turned on "Do Not Unload" and they stayed, and are now en route across the ocean... I was mostly curious why it was verifying in red.

What's the deal with multiple AKVs? Why should that matter? Each unit is only on one AKV.

I have nothing else to contribute, since you are past your problem, Lokasenna, but I just want to say, "Welcome aboard!"

Based on his evident massive throbbing cerebrum, Alfred is probably right, but it might be the Longshoreman's Union.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Based on his evident massive throbbing cerebrum, Alfred is probably right, but it might be the Longshoreman's Union.

Wouldn't I instead then be feeling the massive throbbing in my feet as a result of the too tight and ill fitting concrete shoes I would be wearing?[:)]

Alfred

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

ORIGINAL: Alfred
1. The OP is trying to load two air units simultaneously into the same Air Transport TF which has 2 AKV. Don't do it. Have only one AKV and load only one air unit.

Alfred, I never limit my air transport TFs to 1 AKV only on load, and never experienced any issues. In UV/WitP you were better off loading single units and afterwards
combining to a large TF, but with the new verification system in AE I never witnessed any problems, even "add ship to TF" works as a charm.

Is there any known problem with loading several air groups on a multi-AK TF?

I'm not aware of any known problem. I do however see potential problems which can be totally avoided by merging the disparate TFs.

Air units are handled differently from LCU. The latter are usually, but not always, too large to be transported in a single ship. The game code therefore is already primed to accommodate fragments being spread out amongst multiple ships. However as you are aware the game does not cope with fragments from different units being onboard the same ship. Hence for LCUs it is a case of one LCU per TF, then merging separate TFs if you want to transport in one go multiple LCUs.

Air units are different. No air unit needs more than one ship for its total transportation. Without having access to the code, I can't vouch that the code has been put in place to cope with an air unit becoming fragmented upon loading onto a TF. In a situation where an Air Transport TF has more AKVs than air units to be loaded, particularly if the "load troops only" option is not selected, is the code smart enough to not attempt to disperse the air unit equally to all the AKVs present?

As you haven't experienced any problems then that is good for you. For me as my logistics doctrine does not incorporate multiple AKVs in an initial TF I don't see the need to risk any potential problems.

Alfred

I did come across an issue with VMSB-232 (I think it was 232...) last night. They were on Enterprise, I transferred them to Sydney since the ship was docked and I thought the 1 damaged plane would make it off... It didn't, and now the air unit appears to be permanently split into 17/1. I'm kind of annoyed - I guess I'm doing to disband the 1 pilot unit and see if I can reinforce the 17 man unit with a pilot/plane from the pool.

Thanks for your help!