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Hello,

After running the turn normally and seeing the IJA conquer Bataan with a 5 to 1 attack and destroy all units there, I gave orders and sent the turn to my opponent, Jocke (Jocmeister).

He ran the turn and watched a different replay, where the IJA cut forts to 3 but did not conquer the base. In his combat report the base was not conquered and the attack was a 3 to 1 with somewhat odd loss numbers for each side considering the circumstances. When he looked after the replay all units in Bataan were gone and the IJA was in control of the base, consistent with my replay and combat report.

We are wondering why this is happening (as far as we know it is the second time our replay has differed), and if there is anything we should do to keep it from happening again.

Here are the two relevant sections of the combat reports concerning Bataan. If you need to see a save I can let Jocke know to PM you later with the file and his password, unless it would be better to look at the turn as I sent it to him, in which case let me know and I'll do the same.


My combat report (player 1)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 46071 troops, 500 guns, 704 vehicles, Assault Value = 1687

Defending force 40929 troops, 507 guns, 523 vehicles, Assault Value = 938

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 2031

Allied adjusted defense: 365

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Bataan !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2958 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 259 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 58 disabled
Guns lost 33 (2 destroyed, 31 disabled)
Vehicles lost 110 (7 destroyed, 103 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
37755 casualties reported
Squads: 1193 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3769 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 174 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 492 (492 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 372 (372 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 39


Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
56th Recon Regiment
56th Engineer Regiment
148th Infantry Regiment
113th Infantry Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
16th Division
146th Infantry Regiment
48th Division
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
56th Field Artillery Regiment
16th Army
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
14th Army
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
4th Marine Regiment
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
11th PA Infantry Division
194th Tank Battalion
41st PA Infantry Division
31st Infantry Regiment
21st PA Infantry Division
91st PA Infantry Division
Manila Bay Defenses
71st PA Infantry Division
31st PA Infantry Division
51st PA Infantry Division
2nd PA Constabulary Division
201st PA Construction Battalion
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
Far East USAAF
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
301st Construction Battalion
Provisional GMC Grp
Cavite USN Base Force
Bataan USN Base Force
I Philippine Corps
202nd PA Construction Battalion
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
II Philippine Corps
14th PS Engineer Regiment
192nd Tank Battalion
USAFFE
1st PI Base Force
1st USMC AA Battalion
1st PA Infantry Division
PAF Aviation
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
Asiatic Fleet
Manila USAAF Base Force
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment

------------------------------------------------------------
His combat report (player 2)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 46071 troops, 500 guns, 704 vehicles, Assault Value = 1687

Defending force 40929 troops, 507 guns, 523 vehicles, Assault Value = 938

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 1299

Allied adjusted defense: 405

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3181 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 156 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 71 disabled
Guns lost 50 (2 destroyed, 48 disabled)
Vehicles lost 66 (11 destroyed, 55 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1344 casualties reported
Squads: 26 destroyed, 93 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 47 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 33 (10 destroyed, 23 disabled)


Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Regiment
148th Infantry Regiment
56th Engineer Regiment
56th Recon Regiment
48th Division
146th Infantry Regiment
16th Division
1st Ind. Engineer Regiment
113th Infantry Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
14th Army
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
16th Army
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
56th Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
41st PA Infantry Division
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
21st PA Infantry Division
31st Infantry Regiment
71st PA Infantry Division
Manila Bay Defenses
11th PA Infantry Division
51st PA Infantry Division
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
4th Marine Regiment
91st PA Infantry Division
194th Tank Battalion
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
31st PA Infantry Division
2nd PA Constabulary Division
1st PI Base Force
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
PAF Aviation
14th PS Engineer Regiment
1st PA Infantry Division
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
USAFFE
Far East USAAF
301st Construction Battalion
Bataan USN Base Force
Asiatic Fleet
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
Cavite USN Base Force
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
202nd PA Construction Battalion
201st PA Construction Battalion
I Philippine Corps
Provisional GMC Grp
II Philippine Corps
192nd Tank Battalion
Manila USAAF Base Force
1st USMC AA Battalion
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that is a classic case of the sync bug. The only usual cause for it in AE is that the two players don't have EXACTLY the same version of the game .exe running. Make sure you both have exactly the same patch level installed.

BTW, what you both see on the map when issuing orders is what "actually" happened. Other versions in the replay are the incorrect ones.

ORIGINAL: USS America

Well, that is a classic case of the sync bug. The only usual cause for it in AE is that the two players don't have EXACTLY the same version of the game .exe running. Make sure you both have exactly the same patch level installed.

BTW, what you both see on the map when issuing orders is what "actually" happened. Other versions in the replay are the incorrect ones.

That's what I had suspected. We both recently went to the new official patch. It was fine for a few weeks, then we had a phantom air battle. Now this. Both seen on Jocke's side of things.

Should we re-do this update?

Any other ideas of what might be happening? Or what we might try to fix it? We double checked and we are running the exact same version: 1.0.6.1108r9




------

Seriously, No one has an idea, guess or tip on how to avoid this or what could be causing it? We followed the stickied FAQ on how to upgrade and we have the same version as far as we can tell. Unless diffrent versions was uploaded to diffrent mirrors and that seems unlikely.

From what I have heard, when a sync problem does occur (quite rare when you follow the upgrade procedure), it goes away by itself in two or three turns. That's all I know. [:(]

Hi,

I don't know how valid some of my experiences from WitP is for AE regarding sync problems but we found that the Music level/volume settings could affect the sync.
Making sure we used the same settings took away most of the problems. I did notice though that starting WitP, loading an old save or a save belonging to another game and after that watching the replay (I was Allied) could cause sync problems.
Closing down the game, starting it again and immediately watching the replay solved the problem.

To be able to know if a sync problem occured or not my opponent always included the report files generated. After my replay I could verify that the text files were identical (there can be some minor differences).
If we had a sync problem the differences were huge.
Since the files are different for AE and I haven't played it for a while I don't know if you could use a similar procedure.

/BPRE

ORIGINAL: BPRE

Hi,

I don't know how valid some of my experiences from WitP is for AE regarding sync problems but we found that the Music level/volume settings could affect the sync.
Making sure we used the same settings took away most of the problems. I did notice though that starting WitP, loading an old save or a save belonging to another game and after that watching the replay (I was Allied) could cause sync problems.
Closing down the game, starting it again and immediately watching the replay solved the problem.

To be able to know if a sync problem occured or not my opponent always included the report files generated. After my replay I could verify that the text files were identical (there can be some minor differences).
If we had a sync problem the differences were huge.
Since the files are different for AE and I haven't played it for a while I don't know if you could use a similar procedure.

/BPRE

Appreciated! We might at least see if the music levels are the same.

As I understand it there is FOW built into the combat reports from both sides, so this might be difficult to do each turn, but at least we have been communicating important events well enough so that we know if something 'didn't happen' in one replay.

Thank you witpqs and BPRE! [:)]

Remember that whatever the Japanese player sees in combat is "real" in the sense that all of the internal data files are updated from that. The replay that the Allied player sees is not a "replay" as much as a "reconstruction" of the original combat. Anything that corrupts the seed before or during the replay will cause this reconstruction to deviate from "reality". The simple way to check for sync bug is for the Allied player to compare the map and reports with what he observed during the replay: if there are differences then there was a sync issue.

One thing I recommend is for both players to quit the game and restart the program before loading the PBEM file(s); this not only keeps the problem from propagating but it will also prevent it from occuring at all most times. I have not observed a case in well over a year in my games.l As to what causes the Sync Bug? If anyone knew it would have followed the previous (multiple) syng bugs that have been squashed over the last several years.

Cheers Pompak. We've adopted a policy of having Jocke give a quick recount of what happened as he sends the last turn. This is good anyway, as we then have a bit more dialogue about certain things that are happening in game.

Hopefully it won't happen again. It has to be hard when you think you've shot down 17 Sallys and then find out there wasn't even a combat.

@Obvert

Then you succesfully fixed this issue?

maybe one of you is using the escape button during the combat-phase...

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

@Obvert

Then you succesfully fixed this issue?

We have had several more instances of sync problem. Can´t remember them all but there has been some pretty big ones. I sunk a CL without being aware of it, shot down bombers that wasn´t shot down and other things. Probably missed a lot of minor stuff too.

ORIGINAL: Schorsch

maybe one of you is using the escape button during the combat-phase...

That shouldn´t have any impact in AE as the escape key no longer skips the replay. It merely speeds it up.

Sync bugs can be problem but they are not so common and in most cases they are minor things without big game impact.

OF course they can be big Sync bugs like CV battle that never happen (I and Docup have that few months ago - he watch his CVs destroyed by KB when in reality both CV TF where to farr of each other to fight[:(])

ORIGINAL: Schorsch
maybe one of you is using the escape button during the combat-phase...

ORIGINAL: Schorsch
That shouldn´t have any impact in AE as the escape key no longer skips the replay.
It merely speeds it up.

Well, we don't watch the replay; and yes, I push ESC when the combat report appear.
I'll try using the mouse, it cost nothing;

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
We have had several more instances of sync problem. Can´t remember them all but there
has been some pretty big ones. I sunk a CL without being aware of it, shot down bombers
that wasn´t shot down and other things. Probably missed a lot of minor stuff too.

Is similar to what happened to my opponent and me;

ORIGINAL: koniu
OF course they can be big Sync bugs like CV battle that never happen (I and Docup
have that few months ago - he watch his CVs destroyed by KB when in reality both
CV TF where to farr of each other to fight[:(])

[X(]
My RO-60 put 2 torpedoes in Enterprise and my opponent don't see it in the
combat report ("RO-60 launch 2 torps and missing" or somethings like that), but
the CV is really damaged by my 2 San torps.
[&o]
Now we see what happend in the next turns (we turn ALL the setting in the same
way and I try to...not press ESC)...anyway we go ahead. Thanks to all (for now?)

Just call it FOW[:D]

Well...if someone is interested, we aren't able to solve our pbem(sync?)
problem. Just leave the game. If you see something like that...stop your
game and try another start! (Obviously, you MUST have your complete 1st
turn saved somewhere in your computer, especially jap players...if you
haven't already done it, do it NOW!) [:D]

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

Well...if someone is interested, we aren't able to solve our pbem(sync?)
problem. Just leave the game. If you see something like that...stop your
game and try another start! (Obviously, you MUST have your complete 1st
turn saved somewhere in your computer, especially jap players...if you
haven't already done it, do it NOW!) [:D]

Ours have mostly gone away. I'd definitely reload the game between plays. That seems to be solving it lately, anyway. If it ever happens I just write a short note about things that happened and Jocke makes sure he can verify all of those things in the turn.

After a while, starting over isn't an option! [:)]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

Well...if someone is interested, we aren't able to solve our pbem(sync?)
problem. Just leave the game. If you see something like that...stop your
game and try another start! (Obviously, you MUST have your complete 1st
turn saved somewhere in your computer, especially jap players...if you
haven't already done it, do it NOW!) [:D]

Ours have mostly gone away. I'd definitely reload the game between plays. That seems to be solving it lately, anyway. If it ever happens I just write a short note about things that happened and Jocke makes sure he can verify all of those things in the turn.

After a while, starting over isn't an option! [:)]

Didn´t we have one recently where I never got an airstrike on replay or in the CR? I noticed it because I have one of your DDs listed as sunk by a SAP bomb. Can´t remember the details and where it was though!