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LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:07 am
by Chris21wen
In the rules it's the hexside not the hex that controls whether a LCU can move into an adjoining hex. If you move into a hex from all sides, effectively surrounding it, the enemy LCUs present should not be able to move therefore you should be able to move all of your LCU out of the hex without the enemy moving, thus isolating them. Is this correct?
Probably not a good idea at a base but it should be viable in a none base hex.
Anyway I'm about to try it in the pic below.
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:10 am
by treespider
You can't leave the enemy alone in the hex other wise the hexsides in the hex will revert to their control...otherwise yes.
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:15 am
by Empire101
I think that if you move into an enemy occupied hex through all legitimate hexsides, and then move out, you are only leaving the enemy unit in sole possession of the hex. In this case control of the six hexsides switches to the sole occupier of the hex and they can now exit the hex.
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 am
by Chris21wen
ORIGINAL: treespider
You can't leave the enemy alone in the hex other wise the hexsides in the hex will revert to their control...otherwise yes.
That makes sense. Next question. Can it be any old unit or does it have to have an AV?
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:19 am
by Itdepends
Well if you don't want the enemy units you've just isolated to kick your forces out of the hex- you'll need to leave some AV there to repulse any attack (attempted breakout)
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:54 am
by treespider
ORIGINAL: Chris H
ORIGINAL: treespider
You can't leave the enemy alone in the hex other wise the hexsides in the hex will revert to their control...otherwise yes.
That makes sense. Next question. Can it be any old unit or does it have to have an AV?
IIRC it can be any old unit...but don't expect a collection of mechanics and mess hands to contain a combat division. As "Itdepends" pointed out there is nothing that prevents the enemy unit from attacking you, if it has AV.
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:48 pm
by aphrochine
If you can get sufficient AV to deter an attack, from any direction, you can then use any LCU to "manuvuer" and take the surrounding Hex sides.
However, getting a 'surround' does nothing if you do not have the force to keep the enemy from bludgeoning you out of the hex a few turns later.
Also, each hexside is actually 2 hexsides, one for each hex sharing that side. To keep an enemy from moving out of a hex, you must control that hex's side of the hexside. You cannot prevent an enemy from moving into a hex due to hex side control as they'll take control of the hexside with that said movement.
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:42 pm
by Roger Neilson II
My brain hurts.....
Roger
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:51 pm
by Alfred
ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II
My brain hurts.....
Roger
Take two aspirins ...
Think of the issue along these lines.
1. Each hex has six hexsides. These hexsides are inner doors to the hex which is in the middle of all the six hexsides. In turn each of the six inner door hexsides also act as a single outer door to a separate hex on the border.
2. An unoccupied hex has neutral inner door hexsides. The inner door hexsides are not coloured green or red.
3. When a hex is occupied all six inner door hexsides automatically become owned by the side which first arrived in the hex.
4. When a unit moves into an occupied hex it turns the inner door hexside through which it entered to its ownership colour. However once the unit moves out of the hex all six inner door hexsides revert automatically to the colour of the side which remains in the hex.
5. A unit which is is defeated in battle and is forced to retreat, will only do so if:
(a) it has an inner door hexside coloured friendly (red for Japan, green for Allied), and
(b) there is no enemy unit present in the hex on the other side of the outer door hexside the retreating unit would pass through
To make things easy, overland supply flow follows the same rules.[:)]
Alfred
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:00 pm
by treespider
ORIGINAL: Alfred
ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II
My brain hurts.....
Roger
Take two aspirins ...
Think of the issue along these lines.
1. Each hex has six hexsides. These hexsides are inner doors to the hex which is in the middle of all the six hexsides. In turn each of the six inner door hexsides also act as a single outer door to a separate hex on the border.
2. An unoccupied hex has neutral inner door hexsides. The inner door hexsides are not coloured green or red.
3. When a hex is occupied all six inner door hexsides automatically become owned by the side which first arrived in the hex.
4. When a unit moves into an occupied hex it turns the inner door hexside through which it entered to its ownership colour. However once the unit moves out of the hex all six inner door hexsides revert automatically to the colour of the side which remains in the hex.
5. A unit which is is defeated in battle and is forced to retreat, will only do so if:
(a) it has an inner door hexside coloured friendly (red for Japan, green for Allied), and
(b) there is no enemy unit present in the hex on the other side of the outer door hexside the retreating unit would pass through
To make things easy, overland supply flow follows the same rules.[:)]
Alfred
Thanks for the door analogy Alfred.
When I first came up with the idea for the new design that's how I tried to explain it.
Each hex is a room. When I am in a room alone I can leave the room through any available doorway.
When an enemy enters the room with me they now block the doorway through which they entered....until someone on my side enters the room through the same doorway...blocking my enemies path out of the room.
When I enter a room I only control the door through which I passed.
Ideally one could dictate the control of the hexside based upon unit size...which was attempted. However many issues came up when you had multiple small units entering the hex over multiple turns through multiple hexsides.
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:12 am
by Roger Neilson II
Thank you, the two door analogy makes sense to my few brain cells.
Roger
RE: LCU ZOC
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:32 pm
by richlove
(bump)
Got a quick question on this topic; please see attached image. I'm the Allies. It appears as though the Japanese units in the hex NW of Kuala Lumpur (the hex with the combat symbol) are moving into Kuala Lumpur proper (they have the movement dongle, as far as I can see). Per 8.3.1.2 "Units may only leave a hex across hex sides that their side controls" - so I think that's not allowed. Am I mistaken? FoW? Rule change? Other?
Thanks!
