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Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:01 am
by Jorge_Stanbury
Good morning, I have a question related to barges;
is creating barges of any use?
I have tried to find anything useful for them to do, but so far, my conclusion is, unless I have lost all my shipping, specifically AKLs, they are useless,
Range is only 3 hexes, which can be augmented by adding a PB to replenish at sea, , but the slow speed of 8kts + frequent stops will make any move, even between close island, really slow. But the main shortcoming is the limit of 25 barges per TF; this means that only really small units/ cargo can be moved
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:02 pm
by treespider
Depending on the mod...I use them on the west coast of Malaya and between the peninsula and Sumatra, prior to the fall of Singapore.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:16 pm
by obvert
ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Good morning, I have a question related to barges;
is creating barges of any use?
I have tried to find anything useful for them to do, but so far, my conclusion is, unless I have lost all my shipping, specifically AKLs, they are useless,
Range is only 3 hexes, which can be augmented by adding a PB to replenish at sea, , but the slow speed of 8kts + frequent stops will make any move, even between close island, really slow. But the main shortcoming is the limit of 25 barges per TF; this means that only really small units/ cargo can be moved
If you just need an occasional convoy to a small island close to another base, these are very useful as they are completely expendable and you get a ton of them. Dribbles and dabbles, but stuff gets there after a while.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:03 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
yes you are right, if there is a major threat to the communication line; a small AKL might be more effective but it will not survive any kind of attack; with 25 barges, at least some of the barges might get through destination;
But there are few places within the 3 hex fuel limit and I will not expend a PB as mothership; between AKLs and PBs; I think I will risk the former
For any safer areas, even the smallest AKLs is a lot better; and there are plenty of them
I also like the idea of creating barges in places outside the reach of the IJN (west Malaya before fall of Singapore)
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:26 pm
by crsutton
Our game is in mid 44 and my opponent has used them all the time. I have sunk a ton of em and they keep popping up. I would say that he has found them to be very useful.
As for the Allies, you just can't get enough of these useful craft. But they have better range than the Japanese barges.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:23 pm
by Mike Solli
In the right situation, they are very useful, until the enemy catches them.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:40 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
I think the trick is to understand that the the 3-hex range is irrelevant: for the first 3 hexes barges will move at 2-hex per turn; then it will run out of fuel and therefore move at 1-hex per turn (which is half its speed so no big deal). This as long as you previously set "Home Port" to the destination.
This means that it is potentially possible to move a barge TF from Tokyo to Ponape, as long as you are willing to accept that it will take more than 50 days to arrive to destination.
This obviously can be considered gamey and at the very least tremendously inneficient
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:43 pm
by Mike Solli
I often use barges on one way missions. Once they arrive at their destination, I offload and then disband them.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:49 am
by BigBadWolf
ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
I think the trick is to understand that the the 3-hex range is irrelevant: for the first 3 hexes barges will move at 2-hex per turn; then it will run out of fuel and therefore move at 1-hex per turn (which is half its speed so no big deal). This as long as you previously set "Home Port" to the destination.
This means that it is potentially possible to move a barge TF from Tokyo to Ponape, as long as you are willing to accept that it will take more than 50 days to arrive to destination.
This obviously can be considered gamey and at the very least tremendously inneficient
Nope. Once they are out of fuel, they will start picking up damage and eventually sink.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:48 am
by Jorge_Stanbury
I didn't know, thanks!
I guess my dreams of moving the Guards Division by barges from Tokyo to Java are done [:D]
but I still will test how long they will survive; maybe not Tokyo to Ponape, but they might survive a one-way trip from Rabaul to Shortlands or Lunga
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:50 am
by nashvillen
They will and get back, but they will have 50+ sys damage on each. They fix quickly and can go again. I have tried to make a fuel TF and a supply TF out of them and then merge them and move them giving them extra fuel to go a little further, but they ran into some of those nasty PT boats before I could find out.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:18 pm
by BigBadWolf
I tried sending a barge convoy once from the coast of Malaya to Port Blair. Not a single one made it
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:23 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
It amazes me how detailed and accurate this game models even some minor aspects of the Pacific war
check
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/barges.html
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:27 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf
I tried sending a barge convoy once from the coast of Malaya to Port Blair. Not a single one made it
Maybe because of deep vs shallow water?
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:29 pm
by Historiker
"A barge system capable of delivering three large barge loads per day is sufficient to supply rations for a Japanese triangular division of 18,000 men."
wow!
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:02 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
Another point I just noticed;
"Barge" TF are limited to 25 ships, but by changing the mission to "Landing Craft" the limit changes to 100 barges; this can can be quite a lot of cargo space for moving troops, plus oilers are allowed in this TF
Edit: this afternoon I will test how far 99 barges+1 Kiso PB can go
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:02 pm
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf
I tried sending a barge convoy once from the coast of Malaya to Port Blair. Not a single one made it
Victoria Point to Pt. Blair will work. They arrive with ~50% damage.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:07 pm
by nate25
They're useful in Solomons. Very short distances b/t some of those bases.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:35 pm
by RogerJNeilson
I have never seen, as an Allied player, the option to create them, I had assumed they were merely a fiendish oriental device. Maybe the game is picking on me and refusing to let me have them and everyone else has them.... not that I'm getting paranoid or anything, oh no.........
Roger the..... ok that's enough of that joke.
RE: Create Barge -> any use?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:30 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
Allies got Landing Craft... but I don't think they can just "create" them from supplies (like PT boats or Japanese barges),