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First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:47 am
by Panama
What determines which unit occupies the first line in a unit's TOE. For instance, I've seen two different types of tank brigades where one had a recon vehilce occupying the first line while the other tank brigade had a tank occupying the first line. Both had the same exact recon vehicle. Why would one use it in the first line of the TOE and the second would use something else?
I have never been able to find an answer to this so if anyone knows please let me know. [&o]
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:07 pm
by Curtis Lemay
It seems obvious that TO&E lines are ordered by strength. Some icon types may look at various strengths differently than others, though.
So, did either unit have greater quantities of recon vehicles? Did either unit have a recon-type icon?
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:23 pm
by shunwick
I seem to remember seeing a post several years ago (probably on Gamesquad) about how you could rearrange the order of equipment to be anything you wanted. It came with (I think) four example scenarios.
That was before TOAW III and if I remember correctly the poster set a puzzle for anyone to guess how it was done. I don't think he had any takers and I don't think he explained how it was done either. I still have those test scenarios (somewhere). If anyone is interested I can dig them out.
Best wishes,
Steve
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:49 pm
by Oberst_Klink
My experience is, whatever unit to use first get's the 1st slot. Alas, I use Andy's Scenario Editor or my XML editor to create the TO&E and try to structure them a bit; not that it affects gameplay, but for optical and structural reasons.
Klink, Oberst
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:47 pm
by shunwick
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
My experience is, whatever unit to use first get's the 1st slot. Alas, I use Andy's Scenario Editor or my XML editor to create the TO&E and try to structure them a bit; not that it affects gameplay, but for optical and structural reasons.
Klink, Oberst
Herr Oberst,
Perhaps that is how he did it.
Best wishes,
Steve
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:59 pm
by Panama
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
It seems obvious that TO&E lines are ordered by strength. Some icon types may look at various strengths differently than others, though.
So, did either unit have greater quantities of recon vehicles? Did either unit have a recon-type icon?
Two different tank units i FiTE. One a regular tank brigade belonging to a Tank Corps. First unit 10 BA-10. They stopped producing them in 1941 but in the game they are produced for the entire campaign. I assume because it was a first line unit. If the Soviet player ran out of them there would be no reconstituted regular tank brigades. So the scenario designer was forced to include a vehicle for the entire campaign even though historically it was no longer produced after 1941. This unit also had T34 tanks but early models.
The others were Guard tank brigades. First unit a T34 I think M1943. Late model in any event. But this unit also had 20 BA-10 armored cars.
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:05 pm
by Panama
ORIGINAL: shunwick
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
My experience is, whatever unit to use first get's the 1st slot. Alas, I use Andy's Scenario Editor or my XML editor to create the TO&E and try to structure them a bit; not that it affects gameplay, but for optical and structural reasons.
Klink, Oberst
Herr Oberst,
Perhaps that is how he did it.
Best wishes,
Steve
It would be beneficial to understand how the game editor does it. Or better still, allow the scenario designer to assign what line a unit goes in instead of another game engine controlled function. Could be as simple as the first weapon gets the first line, second weapon the second line, etc. Maybe even allow cut and paste.
If the scenario designer could control this in the editor it could be used in many many different ways to control what happens in a scenario.
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:42 pm
by Panama
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
My experience is, whatever unit to use first get's the 1st slot. Alas, I use Andy's Scenario Editor or my XML editor to create the TO&E and try to structure them a bit; not that it affects gameplay, but for optical and structural reasons.
Klink, Oberst
Two things. First I've tried using this editor and it refuses to load my .eqp file. It insists on using the master .eqp file. Second, once your file is in the editor will the game rearrange according to it's preferences?
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:41 pm
by Panama
ORIGINAL: Panama
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
My experience is, whatever unit to use first get's the 1st slot. Alas, I use Andy's Scenario Editor or my XML editor to create the TO&E and try to structure them a bit; not that it affects gameplay, but for optical and structural reasons.
Klink, Oberst
Two things. First I've tried using this editor and it refuses to load my .eqp file. It insists on using the master .eqp file. Second, once your file is in the editor will the game rearrange according to it's preferences?
Well. Got it to load my equipment file...sort of but I had to change the name from SE.eqp to something with a few more letters.
It's a bit too scarey to try and put together a scenario with thousands of units on a beta/alpha version of something. [:D]
Bah...when you check mark the link equipment file to scenario editor you have to restart the program and it links the MASTER equipment file instead of the user defined one. [:@]
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:41 pm
by sPzAbt653
I've found using the xml's to be more hassle than help. Not bashing, just saying that it is easier for me to deal with the in game editor.
If you use an xml program to edit the first line equipment, it will revert if you open the scenario in the editor afterwards.
Two ways to work with the first line equipment -
1. Increase or reduce the first line on hand. For example, if you want Pz V's to be the first line but at 59/59 they are second, make them 70/59 (or whatever works). Or, if 234/1's are the first line at 16/16 but you don't want them to be the first line, make them 8/16 (or whatever works) and throw the other 8 into the on hand replacement pool.
2. Make a second unit. For example, first unit has 45/45 Pz VI's and 0/45 Pz VIb's. Second unit has 45/45 Pz VIb's and 0/45 Pz VI's. Add an event for the first unit being destroyed, the second unit will enter.
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:11 pm
by shunwick
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
I've found using the xml's to be more hassle than help. Not bashing, just saying that it is easier for me to deal with the in game editor.
If you use an xml program to edit the first line equipment, it will revert if you open the scenario in the editor afterwards.
Two ways to work with the first line equipment -
1. Increase or reduce the first line on hand. For example, if you want Pz V's to be the first line but at 59/59 they are second, make them 70/59 (or whatever works). Or, if 234/1's are the first line at 16/16 but you don't want them to be the first line, make them 8/16 (or whatever works) and throw the other 8 into the on hand replacement pool.
2. Make a second unit. For example, first unit has 45/45 Pz VI's and 0/45 Pz VIb's. Second unit has 45/45 Pz VIb's and 0/45 Pz VI's. Add an event for the first unit being destroyed, the second unit will enter.
Neither of those options were how it was done with the test scenarios I have. They clearly show in the editor that the equipment in the units have different organization. Apart from that, they are identical scenarios. I will find them and upload them for inspection. Probably tomorrow if I have the time.
Ok. Edited. I have found the scenarios more easily than I thought. God, I am well organized. [;)]
There are two scenarios for your inspection...
This is the first...
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:18 pm
by shunwick
And this is the second...
Have a look at both side 1 and side 2 in both scenarios.
The challenge that was given was something like to make the units from scenario 1 have the same equipment organization as the units in scenario 2.
They are both zip files.
RE: First Line Unit
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:35 pm
by shunwick
And I have found the original post by Lou over at Gamesquad. 17 February 2007.
http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread. ... nitpickers