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While waiting for WitP...

I've seen mention of Victory Games' Pacific War, but can't find this in my local hobby shops, and can't seem to find a listing anywhere online. Any suggestions are where to look for this?

Originally posted by Toro
While waiting for WitP...

I've seen mention of Victory Games' Pacific War, but can't find this in my local hobby shops, and can't seem to find a listing anywhere online. Any suggestions are where to look for this?

Many copies of this come up for auction on eBay. Unpunched, you'll pay around $50-60, used, something like $30-40.

I have been playing this off and on at a gaming club since it came out in 1985. It is superior to the old SPI monstrosity "War in the Pacific," but has the usual shortcomings of a cardboard-and-paper rendering of a massive strategic subject.

One of the worst of these is a movement-and-combat system that completely abstracts the process and makes you pile up your units off the map to sort out battles. You can have dozens of cardboard counters to sort through and apply against the often Byzantine rules system.

I am thankful for computer games, like Grigsby's Pacific War and Uncommon Valor and the upcoming War in the Pacific, that assimilate all of the paper shuffling into subroutines that I don't have to manage myself - of course, understanding them and being a successful player is quite a different matter.

The bottom line for me? Victory's Pacific War is among the best of the print games on this subject, but be prepared for weeks-long, neck-aching, back-bending poring over a large tabletop.

You might also still find it in some game stores, I know I got a second copy a few years ago when I was studying in the States. But I expect it's getting rarer now (it used to be as easy to find as Longest Day, a great game that just never sold and accordingly ended up on the store shelves collecting dust).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: Some mail order companies might have it on stock as well. This game ain't quite a collector's item yet.

Try e-bay or do a google search.

It's a cool game but has to many problems. The big one is movement of ships, if I remember rightly. It's movement allowance was off, just enough to cause grief over long distances. Like Pearl to Noumea.

Same scenarios od WitP play much cleaner and are just as much fun. Now playing WitP from 12/41 to 9/45 get's you a free trip to the funny farm!

Thanks, all. Think I might have found a copy in an online store.

Happy sailing.

Same scenarios od WitP play much cleaner and are just as much fun. Now playing WitP from 12/41 to 9/45 get's you a free trip to the funny farm!

Do you mean you ACTUALLY found someone with whom to play a scenario? I only found one other person in Palm Beach County at that time who could even fathom the idea of having a game of that complexity. As a matter of fact, I still have the thing and every once in a while drive my wife nuts by taking up half of the living room laying out the maps, and the garage is just too hot in south Georgia to keep it up there.

Hey Rev

At least in your garage you can replicate the humid heat of the south pacific..heheh.

I love that game though...haven't played it in years. Maybe when I retire..I'll set up a room for my old wargames:)

Sabre21

I grew up with enough of that in the South Florida glades area around Lake Okeechobee - it rained two inches at 1PM, and by 3PM the sun was out full and steam rose from the ground - humidity of 80% was a break from the norm. You would break a sweat unlocking your car door at 7:30 in the morning out there.

So I'll pay Georgia Power.

Seriously, though, those seven map boards were a pain to find a place to spread out, but it was a glorious game to get into. A friend of mine and I gamed out production for months waiting for someone to come and play with us - never had the nerve or the time to tackle the campaign game alone. Can't wait for Matrix to finish their WitP.

A friend of mine years ago tried to get me involved with that...neither of us had any room to set it up. A couple years later I picked of Pacific War and was pretty happy with that.

WiTP is going to be one of those games I've yearned for for a very long time. I would love to see a grand brigade level game like Fire in the East for the Eastern Front with the quality of graphics and play that WiTP and UV have. I know War in Russia is out there...bought that when it first came out eons ago....but maybe GG will make a newer version someday:)

Sabre21

Hi Guys

I was a student at Victory Games and I went with Mark Herman when he found the map for the game. Mark then had draw parts of Java and India on to the map by hand, he really did a nice job. I really think it is the best table top Pacific War game ever made.

David

And remember, guys, that we're talking about Pacific War by Victory Games, a 2-map (44" x 32" total) rendition of the war in the Pacific. The 7-map Fronkensteen monster by SPI with 3,200 or so counters was just ridiculous, but one of Jim Dunnigan's prize turkeys. Note that TSR remade this game in 1991 under the name "Pacific Theater of Operations," a much-whittled-down version with only two maps and 1,200 counters. It was an improvement, but still fell short of what we now expect to be the piece de resistance War in the Pacific by Matrix and 2by3.

Ah, computers. Where would we be without 'em?

TSR's Pacific Theater of Operations must have been the second volume of the World War II series (TSR's strategic level WWII game). I don't think it could have been derived from the earlier Dunnigan Monster game.

Marc aka Caran...

Pasternakski/Capt Cliff,

I have not played Pacific War too much but I do know that there are various house rules posted on the internet (at the Web-grognards site for one).

One of the main changes was to the movement system. Essentially if you were beyond the range of enemy scout aircraft you could move much quicker. So no more 3 month trips just to get a ship from Pearl to Nomura (rebasing at various coral atolls along the way). Even if you do not play with any of the other house rules (mostly made to correct possible abuses) I think this one on it's own hugely improves the game.

I actually liked the fact that the ships, planes and ground forces were off the map. You could actually hide your carriers away and bluff with your task force counters. I thought it added hugely to the game by adding to the uncertaincy. Is my invasion sailing into the teeth of all his land based air and a CV ambush or has he just got a bunch of destroyers sailing around in protecting a second rate dutch brigade. You had to use recon and your opponent (depending on your dice roll) was allowed to lie (to varying degrees) about what he had where.

A good game, but I think the future for War Games is on Computers now.

Pasternaski --

WW2:PTO (TSR/SPI) was not a scaled down version of "War in the Pacific (SPI)." It was a Pacific theater game based on the successful "WW2:ETO" (TSR/SPI, and SPI), which was in turn a development out of "World War II" (by SPI).

"WW2:PTO" had some serious flaws that rendered it comparable to "Empire of the Rising Sun" (Avalon Hill's entry in the arena). Both games shared generally crummy air-to-air and surface combat engines because both games were designed as sequels to ETO games that emphasized the ground war and gave short shrift to aircraft and ship game mechanics. WW2:PTO's strong point is a logistical model far superior to the one used in the A3R/ERS series. Francisco Colmenarez and I wrote some "variant" rules available on Grognards that fixes the worst of the naval and aircraft combat rules. For my money, it is the best table top WW2 Pacific Theater boardgame going because it is easier to play than Pacific War (VG).

But of course, with computers one can basically match the old SPI "War in the Pacific" without having to spend 8 years playing out the war, and without reserving an entire room of your house for the game.

But of course, with computers one can basically match the old SPI "War in the Pacific" without reserving an entire room of your house for the game.

And having to recruit fellow grognards (who else would be crazy enough) with time and fortitude to form a complete operations staff to handle each side of the game.

Ah. I remember the old days when wargamers could actually MEET each other. I miss them.... These computer games are terrific but they are no substitute for good old human interaction.

I loved SPIs WITP and VGs Pacific War....

Rest In Peace

Well, I should be receiving it today. Not that I'll ever have the chance to PLAY it, mind you. I'm sure that by the time I actually read all the rules, WitP will be out and I'll be in gamer heaven anyway.

Still, there's something about gazing over those old boardgame maps, handling the counters, conceiving strategies... God help me if a potential future wife should ever read this, cuz I've lost her now!

I too have pulled out the old board games from time to time just to look at the maps and other stuff.

Having missed many of them the first time, I finally was able to pick up several games covering the theater (thanks to ebay): VG's Pacific War, SPI's CA and The Solomons Campaign. I also picked up SOPAC and Midway by Avalanche from a local game/puzzle store.

Great reading...

Ahhh so thats the problem, you dont like the board game.
Well I think its a great game. AND JFD is a great game designer.
I have played WITP many times and enjoyed each game.

Maybe you were doing dowmthing wrong.

"REal" Wargames with paper and human opponent who drink your beer just tend to disappear, 'caus i don't know anyone my age who has :
1- the place to put it (attic ?)
2- have time to play on reasonable requency (i used to do 10 hours on sunday)
3- a wife who don't throw it away arguing that it collects dust
4- neighbours / friends/ members of family who don't complain when you shout at 4 AM disgusted in seeing your akagy sinking (actually happened)
5- enough beer to hold a play session

you can replace 4 with "cats, dogs, kids"

so, ues paper wargame is ten times more fun, but if i'm on this forum it's because i can find crazy guys able to play such games with confort on time and place. Unfortunately, this does't the same contact. And it is difficult to drink a beer with a friend on the other side of a pc connected 5.000 miles away (8.000 kms):p