Matrix Games Forums

Hi guys,

Here is a very bad tip to ensure a good advantage for the German in 1941 scenario.

On the first turn and following turns cut the supply line of the russian units.

But, here is the tip, do not kill them let them rot for ever.

Soviet player is them facing lack of unit to fortified is rear and for the rest of the game, he as some 30 units quiet.

Just simple as that.

Marc

I have read a lot of tricky advices in the forum. Most of them rely on a game feature, in this case, the impossibility to delete an army with units inside. Clearly it would be not the case in real WWII. Anyone who uses that "let them rot" tactic perhaps wins the game, but in my opinion he does not exhibit more advanced strategical skills.

Originally posted by CRAZY_HORSE007
Here is a good tip to ensure a good advantage for the German in 1941 scenario.

On the first turn and following turns cut the supply line of the russian units.

But, here is the tip, do not kill them let them rot for ever.

Soviet player is them facing lack of unit to fortified is rear and for the rest of the game, he as some 30 units quiet.

Just simple as that.

Hmmm, if I can't get Arnaud to fix this (I have brought this up before) then I smell a house rule here. What was the biggest pocket the Germans created in '41? How many Soviet corps were in it?

Comments anyone?

I've seen this tactic done before...I wasn't impressed. To ensure their quick destruction, I send em marching for Ploesti;) ...that always gets attention

Originally posted by Preuss
I've seen this tactic done before...I wasn't impressed. To ensure their quick destruction, I send em marching for Ploesti;) ...that always gets attention

This won't work anymore, units below 5% average readiness are no longer able to move. That's why I need to get Arnaud to look at this again.

Hmmmm....I've never had a corps I couldn't move at least one hex....less'n it was surrounded of course. And the Germans just don't have enough units to spread around.

...I tried to surround a partizan enclave once with a slew of little units. Of course..the partizans escaped. But scraping up the units and moving them by rail was a hassle.

But it would be nice to delete units that were no longer in supply. In one game I have two HQ's outta supply...I can't do a dang thing with em.

Originally posted by Preuss
In one game I have two HQ's outta supply...I can't do a dang thing with em.

Were u able to replace original leader with less able leader in pool?

Originally posted by Preuss
Hmmmm....I've never had a corps I couldn't move at least one hex....less'n it was surrounded of course. And the Germans just don't have enough units to spread around.

This change should show up in the next version.

...I tried to surround a partizan enclave once with a slew of little units. Of course..the partizans escaped. But scraping up the units and moving them by rail was a hassle.

Partizans aren't "real" units. The computer just picks a square, throws the dice, and sees if the "partizans" succeed in that square. Proximity of German units affect chance of success.

But it would be nice to delete units that were no longer in supply. In one game I have two HQ's outta supply...I can't do a dang thing with em.

Good point.

Originally posted by alfmdoncel
I have read a lot of tricky advices in the forum. Most of them rely on a game feature, in this case, the impossibility to delete an army with units inside. Clearly it would be not the case in real WWII. Anyone who uses that "let them rot" tactic perhaps wins the game, but in my opinion he does not exhibit more advanced strategical skills.

For my part strategical skill means: use all weapons you have or you can find to reach the goal( in these case win the game). In other terms do not sleep on your self confidence and try always to find more that you have in front of your eyes.

Sure it is not noble such as "Tirez les premiers, Messieurs, les Anglais" but for me it looks like more at Trojan horse method.

History is full of generals how have break the conventional rules to reach they goals. We reminder the luckier but never the loser.
It means that if I use a tricky like that, I not sure it will make the difference maybe I will lose the game too 'cause of that trick. Sometimes it is a gambit too.

Many times in my boardgames history, I have been beaten because I forget one little rule or do not think about one trick. I never discuss these point with my opponent, just say "shitt" and then "well done I should have read that rule or think about that before you" That is the proper of a game, try to have one move advance against your opponent.

BTW no personnal offense just my opinion

Marc

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn



Hmmm, if I can't get Arnaud to fix this (I have brought this up before) then I smell a house rule here. What was the biggest pocket the Germans created in '41? How many Soviet corps were in it?

Comments anyone?

Kiev bagged the most in men and material. Smolensk and Minsk were rather large formations respectively with less success acheived in the former than the latter. I do not have the stats handy.

As far as cutting supply, if you can't as German player utterly smash Ivan's initial West Front good and gone via direct Blitz attack (June-Oct '41) in this scenario, something is wrong. Air superiority alone is the difference maker. House rule or not, the Wermacht should be driving and the Red Army should be retreating everything they can.

Regards,

Montenegro

June Minsk encirclement-Bialystok: 300,00 troops, 2,500 tanks
August Smolensk encirclement: 310,000 troops, 3,025 tanks
August Uman encirclement: 103,000 troops, N/A tanks
September Kiev encirclement: 662,00 troops, 884 tanks, 3,718 arty
October Vyazma encirclement: 673,000 troops, 1,200 tanks, 4,000 arty
Oct.-Nov. South Ukraine-Crimean: 206,000

German losses thru end of August: 440,000 and 50% of panzer force.
Russian dead and wounded unclear, perhaps 3-4 million thru end of Nov. Most captured ended up dead by war's end.

Sobering statistics!

It seems there are two different trends among WIR players. Some of them emphasize the game side of the program, and they accordingly make their most to achieve their goals,i. e. win the game. And that is completely honourable. There are other player group, (and the one to which i would like to belong) who emphasize the historical side, but anyhow realising that its only a game. I think only this latter group needs the house rules as described in other threads. And in my opinion this issue of trapped armies and trapped Hqs needs a houserule until it will be eventually corrected. My favourite correction would be let them plot a hex per turn, and additionally to have the possibility of deleting HQs.

Hello!

On 12/31/1941 total losses or Red Army was 3 137 673.
From that 2 335 482 was lost (most of him is prisoners) and other (~800 000) - killed and dead.

Sorry for my terrible English

Regards,
moi

I had noted the computer glitch about "abandoned" soviet units-both HQ and units.

I do not consider a German who wins by such tactics of leaving isolated Russian HQ/units a valid wargamer. I doubt that WWII would have left an organized cadre of troops behind enemy lines to play havoc with supply and senior HQ locations.(movie "Dirty Dozen" not withstanding)

Balancing campaign 41 is an outstanding task though.
My thoughts...
1/ Return to divide by 4 any panzer attacks across rivers in 41.
2/ Return to better soviet air training in 41. Sending fighters to fight with experience 35 is demoralizing to a human player.
3/ Consider an increase to supply for Russian units through Sept 30, 41. Perhaps increasing by 10% per turn through to Aug 31,41; then 5% through Sept 30,41. @Oct 1,41 all such accumulated multiples disappear, but not the HQ supplies perhaps accumulated.
4/ Reduce normal German rail supply to 8 in July and 7 in August 41.
5/ Would there be a way to create more Russian units till Nov 30 41...so as to allow for buildup of more entrenchments? Perhaps for 41, Russia could "borrow" some slots assigned to German korps.

I suggest that the above would help improve the Russian position, though how much is uncertain.

My current game where the Russian armour was reduced to 2 hex plotting for turns Aug 17, 24, 31 appears to be a fizzle for the Russians. By this time, 5 hex movement for panzers is no longer critical. ok, so i either made a major flub of defending Kiev or the Germans got lucky on their first attack.

Originally posted by moi
Hello!

On 12/31/1941 total losses or Red Army was 3 137 673.
From that 2 335 482 was lost (most of him is prisoners) and other (~800 000) - killed and dead.

Sorry for my terrible English

Regards,
moi

In the West, we have trouble getting hard numbers for Russian casualties. I have read of 20 million total for the war. What have you found is the number given there, military and civilian casualties. Your english is fine, imagine if I had to write this in Russian. lakjf;laj;flaj;oerioiaj;lakj;la;nf;lajflajlansd;lfj;alkjf;alj;eii;afla;fj;lajfa;jfa;lkfdj. NYET!

Originally posted by Mike B
I had noted the computer glitch about "abandoned" soviet units-both HQ and units.

I do not consider a German who wins by such tactics of leaving isolated Russian HQ/units a valid wargamer.

I agree with you on that point, but what I consider valid is to have the inquisitivebess of mind to find new tactics and new way of playing. If afthermath it reveal to be an abuse then forget about it.

But, I think that is important for the evolution of the game to have player like Josan or others always on the edge of the gaming play.

Marc

Originally posted by CRAZY_HORSE007



But, I think that is important for the evolution of the game to have player like Josan or others always on the edge of the gaming play.

Marc

I´m not in the edge by now. Actually only I play with the House Rules. In the case of games that people dont want to play with these rules ( like the game against Preuss ) I aply myself the restrictions, including the 2-3 air attacks per hex limitation.

Sorry for dissapoint you

Josan.

Originally posted by Josan


I´m not in the edge by now. Actually only I play with the House Rules. In the case of games that people dont want to play with these rules ( like the game against Preuss ) I aply myself the restrictions, including the 2-3 air attacks per hex limitation.

Sorry for dissapoint you

Josan.

You are not dissapoint me, for my part I play German side against Itjustme with house rules + no interdiction at all for German until 1943. Pretty good balancing rule in fact;)

Marc

Originally posted by CRAZY_HORSE007


You are not dissapoint me, for my part I play German side against Itjustme with house rules + no interdiction at all for German until 1943. Pretty good balancing rule in fact;)

Marc

No interdiction at all??????:eek: Maybe too much limitation, I dont know.

Btw, 3 of 3 in the blitz. Not bad.:p

I hope face you some day in a game.

Originally posted by Josan




I hope face you some day in a game.

With pleasure but with 3 games in progress and family, work, etc, etc my time for Wir is an eternal struggle.

But I think you face the same problem

Marc