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Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:16 pm
by PDiFolco
As an old SL player I was intrigued by the game, but was a bit held off by the limited scope (only Eastern 41-42..). I only recently tried the demo, and overall was a bit disappointed, don't think I'd buy.
The first 2 scenarios, infantry only, are a lot of fun, but as soon as tanks and arty enters (3 rd scen Mzhev)it falls a bit apart... Arty strikes are instakills to entrenched infantry, while tanks are slow and totally underpowered !
A PzIV is not even able to kill a BA car ? A PzIII has a paltry chance of destroying a T26 ? Come on ... On the other side tanks are impervious to infantry, and T34 and KV indestructible.
Oh, and tanks aren't even effective vs infantry ! The most ridiculous action was a Russian SMG running 10 hexes to a VP hex in the middle of a German tank platoon, unharmed ...
Noone thinks there a big problem with the game system ??
RE: Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:38 pm
by chrispman
Inf has 0 Firepower vs Tanks. In close combat this is +4. Against a 13 Flank DM and +2 CAPs on the roll this has 50% hit chance (This is from memory, so I might be off).
This is more effective than CC vs AVF in ASL (without ATMMs or Baz, PF).
ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
As an old SL player I was intrigued by the game, but was a bit held off by the limited scope (only Eastern 41-42..). I only recently tried the demo, and overall was a bit disappointed, don't think I'd buy.
The first 2 scenarios, infantry only, are a lot of fun, but as soon as tanks and arty enters (3 rd scen Mzhev)it falls a bit apart... Arty strikes are instakills to entrenched infantry, while tanks are slow and totally underpowered !
A PzIV is not even able to kill a BA car ? A PzIII has a paltry chance of destroying a T26 ? Come on ... On the other side tanks are impervious to infantry, and T34 and KV indestructible.
Oh, and tanks aren't even effective vs infantry ! The most ridiculous action was a Russian SMG running 10 hexes to a VP hex in the middle of a German tank platoon, unharmed ...
Noone thinks there a big problem with the game system ??
Oh, and tanks aren't even effective vs infantry !
RE: Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:06 pm
by e_barkmann
Noone thinks there a big problem with the game system ??
Nope
RE: Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:24 pm
by Jamm
Which PzIII and Pz IV because there are big differences between the makes and their armament.
Are the shots long range, flank, head on?
There are a lot of variables and modifiers.
Not as many as ASL, but enough to give a realistic firefight.
I've been very pleased with this system so far, and I expect it to get better as it evolves with new add ons.
And infantry without AT weaponry cannot kill a tank at range, no panzerfausts at this stage of the war.
RE: Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:45 am
by PDiFolco
Inf vs tanks is not that bad... It's tank combat that is. Any early PzIV with L75/24 gun can KO a BA even with a close miss due to explosion blast !
Same for PzIIIe/f vs a T26 or BT, penetration was a pretty sure thing beyond 500m. In the game the best I had were like 25%...
There's something screwed with AP attack vs armoured Def.
And does anyone find arty strikes overpowered ?
RE: Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:55 pm
by tsnouffer
ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
And does anyone find arty strikes overpowered ?
When I read your earlier post, I was even thinking, "Huh, I always thought it was underpowered."
More often than not, I find myself disappointed in arty results. Meaning it doesn't kill as often as I would hope/expect.
Are you talking against all units or just infantry or in general?
RE: Not convinced by demo... tanks and arty combat
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:10 pm
by Jamm
I think in some of the stock scenarios the arty can be OP.
Strength of arty strike and die roll vs flank defense of target unit with terrain modifiers.
I believe terrain modifier is removed in woods to simulate airbursts.
In the open, units can get chewed up.
When designing scenarios, I tend to use arty sparingly and keep the strength of the strike lower.
Unless I'm thinking of a rocket barrage or something special.
I think you should take a look at the rulebook at the academy games website to see what modifiers they are using under the hood.
It is not ASL but IMHO the system works well.
And Storms of Steel will be coming out soon which will increase the number of units and scope of the game.