Matrix Games Forums

I thought I read on the forums that this game will not have an AI when it ships. But I see lots of AI discussion. Will it have an AI?

as I understand it. it will be made without AI and some options.

and then, does options will be provided as patches.

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

I thought I read on the forums that this game will not have an AI when it ships. But I see lots of AI discussion. Will it have an AI?

MWIF will have an AI Opponent, but not as part of its initial release. The AIO will be created after the game's initial release.

No AI. This seems to be where Chris Marinacci left his version of the game lo those many years ago. Albeit the Matrix version likely has better graphics and more scenarios. Probably more complete on the rules. But still, no AI for all that time is sorta too bad. [:(]

Will we get the chance at a latter date to purchase a version with the AI fully implemented into the finished product?

That is the plan.

You have to be kidding me? No AI? 10 years and no AI and then hope an AI is added later. How far down the road can we expect an AI? 10 more years. Phttt.

Gives you ten years to find some humans to play who will undoubtedly provide far more challenge.

My plan is to purchase the non-AI version and then will upgrade it when the AI arrives. I am basically a lock unless the reviews are that it is bug infested (a la Empires in Arms). One worry I have is that most ignore the non-AI version, and then poor sales result in Matrix pulling the plug on the AI version despite the fact that the contract is for both.

ORIGINAL: Vanman

My plan is to purchase the non-AI version and then will upgrade it when the AI arrives. I am basically a lock unless the reviews are that it is bug infested (a la Empires in Arms). One worry I have is that most ignore the non-AI version, and then poor sales result in Matrix pulling the plug on the AI version despite the fact that the contract is for both.

Not much danger of that. The upfront cost to create the AIO is just me, and I'm paid in royalties based on sales - yet to be made. The cost of the AIO product is virtually nil since there is no need to change the printed material (Rules as Coded and Players Manual). At most there might be a ReadMe file for the AIO. I can't foresee the need for extensive additional written material. Just select AI Opponent from the list of modes of play and have at it.

Empires in Arms was bug infected? I have been thinking of buying it, lately... Is it bug-free now?

IMHO, Steve should be really proud of what he has accomplished so far.

Matrix WiF is an enormous project, a huge endeavor.

If it can be released sometime in 2014, without AI, bug free, I think it would be a truly incredible achievement. Nothing less.

Granted!

Is there a thread that gives the details of why the AI was removed from the initial release?

Also is there any info on how long after the initial release the AI release will occur?

Don't exactly know which one. However, it was removed (AFAIK) because Steve wanted to finally release the first version of the game and it was unrealistic to wait till a version with an AI was possible, after all these years, and after Steve's recent illnesses...

There will be an IA but there is no date. Which is normal if you realize that there is not even a date for the non-AI version yet. Whichs is normal too, after several announces of release that finally didn't happen (years ago).

I think postponing the AI is dangerous. Post launch, there'll be bugs to fix as well, so finding time to write it will be even harder.

Personally, I don't mourn the fact that the AI will be delayed. An AI would be nice to have, but I can't imagine that it would be anywhere near as good an opponent as a human (even one who plays badly). This game is extraordinarily complex and is challenging for humans to play. A year or two to develop an AI? I think you're off by an order of magnitude.

Once it is released, to your point, there will be bugs to fix. Frustration with the game would only be compounded by any dissatisfaction with the AI as well, and it would prove a distraction to correcting playability issues. Even in your scenario, fixing an AI would be secondary to having a stable platform that could be played by the paying public.

To me, the only advantage to an AI is to help learn the rules to prepare you better to play against human opponents. You can play a few impulses, perhaps a turn or two, but a competent player will likely see little challenge in continuing against it. I would love to be proven wrong, but I think this is the way the smart money would bet.

Mike

Empires in Arms was bug infected? I have been thinking of buying it, lately... Is it bug-free now?

EiA had some issues, for sure. The last patch resolved a lot of it and it plays pretty well. There are still a few gameplay issues but not bad. The AI still needs work, and hopefully the developer will return to it someday.

To me, the only advantage to an AI is to help learn the rules to prepare you better to play against human opponents. You can play a few impulses, perhaps a turn or two, but a competent player will likely see little challenge in continuing against it.

I disagree. The nirvana of having a computer opponent for a PC wargame is to have a ready willing competent adversary whenever it is convenient for you, not some pbem or NetPlay opponent someplace. I don't mind waiting for a post-release AI. And I don't mind waiting a while for Steve to continue to improve and enhance the AI over time. You can be a naysayer all you want, but I remain optimistic. The Strategic Command series has an outstanding AI, but it's taken years to get it where it is now. And the effort needed to script the AI and game events is considerable, but well worth it and proves the point that it IS possible to have a formidible AI for a complex grand strategy WWII wargame. Be patient.

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Empires in Arms was bug infected? I have been thinking of buying it, lately... Is it bug-free now?

EiA had some issues, for sure. The last patch resolved a lot of it and it plays pretty well. There are still a few gameplay issues but not bad. The AI still needs work, and hopefully the developer will return to it someday.

To me, the only advantage to an AI is to help learn the rules to prepare you better to play against human opponents. You can play a few impulses, perhaps a turn or two, but a competent player will likely see little challenge in continuing against it.

I disagree. The nirvana of having a computer opponent for a PC wargame is to have a ready willing competent adversary whenever it is convenient for you, not some pbem or NetPlay opponent someplace. I don't mind waiting for a post-release AI. And I don't mind waiting a while for Steve to continue to improve and enhance the AI over time. You can be a naysayer all you want, but I remain optimistic. The Strategic Command series has an outstanding AI, but it's taken years to get it where it is now. And the effort needed to script the AI and game events is considerable, but well worth it and proves the point that it IS possible to have a formidible AI for a complex grand strategy WWII wargame. Be patient.

Don't get me wrong - it would be great to have a capable AI. But I don't see it as needed for this game's original release, nor do I think that waiting until one is ready is reasonable or economically (for Matrix) feasible.

Rmdesantis,

It is likely to hurt sales though.

Best wishes,
Steve