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I nearly could not believe my eyes, when I saw that I am about to get my first ships equpped with radar - playing AS JAPANESE! So it is possible (unless the game craches the instant I get them on the map

Yes, Rowlf, it's in my game against you, so you better watch out

Now I seek opinions as to how to use them. I won't tell exact names of ships except that they are cruisers. They are equipped with type 13 radar. So what do you suggest, do I:

a) put them in surface TF so as to help them spot US ships sooner in nightfight?

b) put them in Air Combat TF so as to detect incoming strikes from US CVs sooner?

I now see that radar type 13 is listed in database as Air search radar, so I guess it is option b)... I noticed US nearly always get the first strike in CV vs CV battles, and explained it to myself it is because of radar... seems logical. We'll see whether the little type 13 will help in any way.

Any stories re Jap ships with radar being used successfully in this game?

O.

I think the reason it looks like the Allies strike first is just because they are resolved first. I haven’t found radar, or the lack of it, to make a difference. It might give you a few extra rounds of air-to-air combat for your CAP. It would be nice if we knew better what radar did in the game.

Yamamoto

I think Yamamoto's correct on why the allies seem to strike first.

Matrix have discussed radar capabilities in several threads but good luck in finding them.

Here are quotes from two of them (from Erik Rutkins).

I believe the manual discusses this, but I'll paraphrase from memory... Surface radars have a chance of increasing the detection level of enemy ships. This makes the enemy easier to target accurately during a surface battle, particularly at night when detection levels are extremely low.

Air radar has a chance at giving early warning of an incoming strike, allowing more CAP planes to get to the right altitude and giving them a better chance of getting in a good fight before the strike reaches its target.

From deeper within the database... I'm not sure what Penetration represents in this case. I think Effect is related to the chance of it detecting a target.

Type 271, Range 28, Effect 75
Type 279, Range 250, Effect 70, Penetration 500

SC, Range 24, Effect 50
SG, Range 28, Effect 75
SJ, Range 25, Effect 70

CXAM, Range 150, Effect 50, Penetration 500
SCR-270, Range 250, Effect 70, Penetration 500
CPS-1, Range 400, Effect 80, Penetration 500

Type 13, Range 100, Effect 45, Penetration 500
Type 21, Range 20, Effect 55
Type 22, Range 34, Effect 60

What I can't determine is whether more ships with radar is better (I assume it is). It's worth noting that the type 13 radar is considerably inferior to the SG for surface combat detection. I assume its '43 in Oleg's game (when there are a lot more allied SG equipped ships).

If you want an opinion, I'd put them in your CV TF's and give yourself a better chance of protecting your high value ships by boosting your CAP effectiveness.

If you used the type 13 equipped ships in head to head surface combats, you'd still be operating under a disadvantage against the USN SG/SC ships in terms of detection effectiveness (IMO, one of the keys to success in surface engagements).

This is just a guess but the range of 100 for type 13 probably can't translate into an advantage in surface combat due to the way the surface routines operate (note the restricted range of the USN SC radar - it was primarily supposed to detect a/c - which should translate into a range closer to the Type 13 - as Matrix seem to be modeling it as a surface only, long range doesn't seem to be that important).

Well Drongo type 13 is listed as "air search" radar, so I guess it won't be of ANY use in surface detection and combat. Ergo - ships go to CV TFs.

BTW it's not 43, it's early June 42 and I expect the radar equipped ship(s) to arrive at Truk in 10-30 days.

I note this is whole class of Jap cruisers equipped with type 13 radar (which is good, as most of ships from this class would be pretty useless otherwise). At least that's how it is in scen #19. Playing other scenarios I don't remember getting any ship from this particular class, so maybe they do have radar in other scenarios too, but are being kept in Japan

I won't tell which class it is, so as not to ruin the "suspense" for some players, but you may easily check in the editor if you want.

Several ships of the said class have 40 (!) torpedo tubes (they had them historically so this is not a bug), so I guess I'll put those radar equipped torpedo monsters in surface groups after all. Others from the class (with radars but without as much torp tubes) go to CV TFs.

O.

Posted by Oleg Mastruko

Well Drongo type 13 is listed as "air search" radar, so I guess it won't be of ANY use in surface detection and combat. Ergo - ships go to CV TFs.

I have no idea whether or not type 13 radar has any surface capability. I'd originally thought it might have some use (I saw one website that mentioned it having very limited capability in that role). Unless you've seen otherwise, you're probably using it correctly with the CV's.

BTW it's not 43, it's early June 42 and I expect the radar equipped ship(s) to arrive at Truk in 10-30 days.

Impressive, you're more than 6 months ahead of the historical introduction (from what I've read). It may well be that you've managed to pick up some ships that normally only turn up in '43. This is the first time I've ever had confirmation that IJN ships can have radar, might be worth sending some of mine back to Tokyo in my PBEM (Oct '42).

Good Luck.

I am in the middle of june 42 and am definetly considering sending some cruisers back to tokyo for some radar:D

Matt,

You may want to wait for further confirmation from Oleg. I know the ships he's talking about. When I checked the database, they have a flagged slot for radar but I didn't see any other IJN ships that had it.

Originally posted by Drongo
Matt,

You may want to wait for further confirmation from Oleg. I know the ships he's talking about. When I checked the database, they have a flagged slot for radar but I didn't see any other IJN ships that had it.

Exactly. I would be suspicious of sending ships back to Tokyo hoping for them "to get radar", or to get any kind of upgrade for that matter

Cruisers I mentioned indeed have "slot" or "flag" for radar visible in the editor, and all I can confirm is that in mid-June scen #19 in my game I received some radar equipped Jap cruisers - and game did not crash

O.