Matrix Games Forums

I would like to use some units that appear in the encyclopaedia and in the OOB editor, but are never available for purchase whatever the year is. The corresponding icons are not in the SHP folder. For example :
- the Lysander appears to be unit 136 and icon 918 in the French OOB
- the Panhard P 178, german version appears to be unit 074 and icon 324 in the czech OOB

Both are not available.

What can I do to get them into a scenario?
Expert advise requested.
Thanks in advance.

I can't figure this out, either. Help!

I cannnot believe there is no expert able/willing to help us.
Come on, a little effort please.

Here's how the French problem is solved. If Czech discomfort persists, see Doctor Bing.

First of all, there are two French OOB's and from what I see, they have trouble coordinating. Here is how I gave the FREE French the Lysander, Junkers 88 and Dakota (going from memory here). Get cargo planes of all kinds out of OOB 76 - France, delete the units AND the formation for cargo planes. This is to avoid the possibility of game engine confusion and ultimate rejection of the unit you want to see.

Cut the unit info for the Lysander out of France 76 and paste it into Free France 91. Make sure the unit designation is 78 - Cargo Aircraft. Go into Formation and if a Cargo Plane Trp doesn't exist, create it and put 4 X Lysander into it. Also make sure you change the OOB designation to "Free France 91" because it will read "France 76" from the cut and paste operation.

Now comes the important aspect: All dates have to be the same, or the game is going to get confused. I chose January 1944 to End Of 1949 - I don't know for sure what the Free French dates are. I guessed at these and it worked. These dates will have to be the same for all three cargo aircraft if you want them in the game. Same dates for the formation.

When you set up the battle in the Editor, just make sure the date is sometime between January 1944 and December 1949.

I don't say this is the only way to solve the problem - I say this is the way I solved it. Tricky because you have the same nation but two OOB's in different time spans. Let's put it this way: I can set up a battle with the French flag showing in the nation - there isn't a Free French flag, just a French flag - I can buy the Lysander or any or all of the other two cargo aircraft.

I haven't checked the cost figures - you are on your own in that category. I suppose the Lysander could be put into regular France OOB IF the cargo formations don't conflict - I think that is the real source of the trouble.

Bing

Thanks Doctor Bing for your prescription, that I will strictly follow.
I hope this medication will cure the disease.
This means, I guess, that this modified OOB has to be attached to a scenario for other players to be able to play the scenario.
The procedure, I imagine, is the same for the Panhard P178 in the CS OOB or any other "lost unit" in whatever OOB.
It looks as if there is no other solution while keeping SPWaW's original OOB's.

Since the OOB will be changed, yes, you will have to send it to your partner. But that is no different than what we've been doing for years, is it?

BTW in PBEM, it does not matter if you and your opponent have identical OOB's - if it has been changed in any way you will almost certainly get a "Security Violation". At least, that is wht I always get. Like warts, it grows on you.

We're on our own now for OOB's - AFAIK there won't be anything in the way of "official" releases. Which means tht if you really want a certain USMC "Scout" or "Patrol" unit to be Elite and Recon, you will have to make the correciton yourself and be certain your opponent has the same OOB. - One of the USMC Scout units came out Elite, but not Recon in the official OOB. That's not terribly efficient for a unit which is supposed to be recon.

I've thought for a long time that any difference in OOB's, the scenario package to be posted ought to include the revised OOB - always should have. Voice in the wilderness.

Bing

Hi guys, all you need to do is buy a similar unit with the country involved, then change the date to December 1949, then click on the 'change unit to different type' , then go to Czech oob, select the Panhard, and voila, no need to switch oob's to play a scenario with it either!! If the units are in a particluar oob already, there is no need whatsoever to have to switch out oob's, usually it is a matter of changing the date to December 1949, and changing, just remember to change the date of the scenario back to that one desired!!:D Hope this helps. Whenever you change a unit like this, it will already get switched to that of the original oob of the player, you will need to change the name of the unit leader, that will retain it's Czech origin!

Hello Warhorse.
I make switches like this all of the time but in the case of the Lysander, I cannot make it work.

The Lysander just will not appear in either the purchase or replace screens... for either French OOB.

I would like to find a way to use this elusive plane without creating an OOB modification.

That Lysander is a great little aircraft to use for certain smaller scenarios.

Redleg - See above - the problem is having two OOB's for the French - one for "France" and the other for "Free French". Take ALL the references to the Lysander out of the France OOB - including ALL formations that refer to Cargo Aircraft.

Cut the Lysander out of the France OOB and paste it into the Free French OOB. Make sure the OOB now reads Free French and not just plain France, its easy to forget this.

Go to the OOB formations and make sure you have a Cargo Transport Trp or whatever you want to call it. If you don't have one create one. If you have one and it shows anything but 4 X Lysander, put 4 X Lysander in there.

Make sure ALL dates for ALL cargo aircraft in units AND formation are exactly the same, see above. The Lysander has to show up if you follow the above - no one knows for sure what will happen if you leave the Lysander in France OOB or you leave "Cargo Transport TrP' formation in France OOB. The idea of having two OOB's for the same flag is not very good, it leads to trouble like this. The game engine becomes confused and I can't say I blame it for being that way.

Bing

The Free FRench oob kicks in November 1942, IIRC, this is a coded thing, we were, or did at one time, going to make both identical, so it wouldn't matter. I would imagine this is the problem with the Lysander, OR, you could try to go before November 1942, the plane should show then, it has to be before the FF oob kicks in though, or no joy. To find out for sure, go to battle gen., and change the dates, running your curser over the French flag, it will change when the oob switches! You shouldn't have to switch out oob's, like I said...

Ok, I see what is going on!! The Lysander is not supposed to be in the FRench oob, you can't have ANY 1949 stuff in the French oob, it must ALL be in the FF oob, an oversight by the designers!! Since the French oob doesn't EXIST in the programs eye in 1949, this is what is happening, sorry for the misunderstanding!!

Yeah, it gets hairy, Mike. I came up with one manner of solving the problem there are others I am sure.

What you WILL get is a "Lysander" button on the Misc Purchase screen, but you won't get anything if you click on it. This means to me there is a conflict. Remove the offending member from one OOB totally, enter it only in the other OOB is my approach.

All I can say is, it works and would probably work in reverse, that is take all references to the Lysander out of the Free French and show them exclusively in the "France" OOB. The problem with having cargo aircraft in both is the game engine so far as I can see really doesn't just start observing the Free French at a cerain time - the order of sort or whatever does not apear to work strictly that way.

So .. don't give it the opportunity to make that error.

Bing

I tried the "change unit" routine that works for the Panhard but the Lysander is really gone for good and not available.

Hi all,

I already prepared this post at home yesterday so it has some stuff that already has been posted here in the meantime too.

The Panhard and the Lysander can´t be purchased normally! You need to use the "R" key (replace by different unit) method!

Panhard availabilty is 1.39 to end of 41. Scenario editor needs to be set for this period (NOT 12.49!), then any (german) unit can be replaced with "R" key and selection of Czech OOB (Nation) with the Panhard.

It´s somewhat different with the Lysander from French OOB. Obviously there´s a logical OOB bug! Availability of Lysander in "French" OOB is december 49, but French OOB is switched to Free French in 1943! Means you won´t ever see the Lysander due to the OOB switch in 1943. The Lysander isn´t available at all in Free French OOB!
Solution: Make it temporarily available by editing the Lysander in French OOB to availability date starting at least in 1942! Save edited French OOB, then replace any previously bought cargo AC in SPWAW Editor with "R" key method to the Lysander. Off course scenario date needs (Temporarily) to be set to somewhere in 1942 (or earlier, dependent upon current setting in OOB) first!
You don´t need to share the edited French OOB. Once you saved your scenario to hard disk, you´re free to change scenario date again and can use the Lysander without any trouble.
As last step you might want to set the Lysander in OOB editor back to Start date: 12.49 to restore the original data (with the bug!). It´s not really necessary though, unless you also use this OOB for PBEM!

Ah....Warhorse already had pointed this out very well too!

Ok...now we should have mentioned all possible solutions in this thread!

________
Harry

I think you're right, Harry. We most likely can stop flogging the beast, 'cause the beast is dead.

Bing