Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

According to this video, it was the French that saved the British.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6C5P-AYGdY

ORIGINAL: Skyland

I think there is a BBC video on same topic saying nothing about the french.
So the score is 1 - 1[;)].

A good read about this campaign from german point of view, including Dunkirk is "Blitzkried legend. die Westfeldzug 1940". KH Frieser. 1995. Translated in french in 2003. And in english this year.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Oh dear.....

Yes, if you read between the lines it’s all quite simple:

French = heroic and brave
British = cowardly backstabbers.

What a shame. The truth of course is never that simple. Did the French provide the bulk of the rear-guard that enabled so many Allied troops to escape? Yes. Was their action heroic and to be applauded and honoured? Yes.
But as I said, things are not that simple.

First and foremost, it must be remembered that the French and British were two separate countries with centuries of enmity and that had been brought together only since the turn of the century thanks to the mutual fear and suspicion of Germany. Political and military leaders of both countries had one eye on what was best for them as well as for the alliance against Germany.

So against that background, if we look at the facts for a minute, in whose sector did the Germans make the breakthrough that ultimately led to Dunkirk? Are all the accounts false of much of the French army in and around Sedan melting away – not when meeting the Germans, but on rumours of the Germans soon arriving!

Can Churchill and Gort be blamed for not reacting to the French collapse with alarm and for doubting their willingness to fight? Iirc, a counter-attack was planned as the Germans raced for the channel coast, but the French failed to provide the troops promised.

Against this background what were the British to do? By the time the Germans had reached the coast there was no way the Allies could turn the battle – it was a case of how does this end for the troops encircled?
The British were going to fight on against Hitler, the French? They couldn’t be certain but history proves they were right not to take the chance.

When countries are defeated it is natural to look for someone, something to blame. The French and British in WWII were no different. The French blame the British, the British blame the French, and both blame the Belgians!

Facts are, Operation Dynamo played out like it did. Largely French rear-guard actions and the heroism of the Allied navies (btw despite what the video states, the Royal Navy suffered more losses than its French counterpart) bought time for the 300,000 + French and British troops to be evacuated. Britain fought on, and ultimately the Germans were defeated. Let’s be thankful for that.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Oh dear.....

Yes, if you read between the lines it’s all quite simple:

French = heroic and brave
British = cowardly backstabbers.

What a shame. The truth of course is never that simple. Did the French provide the bulk of the rear-guard that enabled so many Allied troops to escape? Yes. Was their action heroic and to be applauded and honoured? Yes.
But as I said, things are not that simple.

First and foremost, it must be remembered that the French and British were two separate countries with centuries of enmity and that had been brought together only since the turn of the century thanks to the mutual fear and suspicion of Germany. Political and military leaders of both countries had one eye on what was best for them as well as for the alliance against Germany.

So against that background, if we look at the facts for a minute, in whose sector did the Germans make the breakthrough that ultimately led to Dunkirk? Are all the accounts false of much of the French army in and around Sedan melting away – not when meeting the Germans, but on rumours of the Germans soon arriving!

Can Churchill and Gort be blamed for not reacting to the French collapse with alarm and for doubting their willingness to fight? Iirc, a counter-attack was planned as the Germans raced for the channel coast, but the French failed to provide the troops promised.

Against this background what were the British to do? By the time the Germans had reached the coast there was no way the Allies could turn the battle – it was a case of how does this end for the troops encircled?
The British were going to fight on against Hitler, the French? They couldn’t be certain but history proves they were right not to take the chance.

When countries are defeated it is natural to look for someone, something to blame. The French and British in WWII were no different. The French blame the British, the British blame the French, and both blame the Belgians!

Facts are, Operation Dynamo played out like it did. Largely French rear-guard actions and the heroism of the Allied navies (btw despite what the video states, the Royal Navy suffered more losses than its French counterpart) bought time for the 300,000 + French and British troops to be evacuated. Britain fought on, and ultimately the Germans were defeated. Let’s be thankful for that.

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

I always laugh when Americans try to bash the French.

We (the Brits) have bee doing it for over a thousand years, and we aren't stopping anytime soon. (the reverse is also true)

Only a politician could come up with the idea of "sharing a CV." Its never going to work out in the long run.

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Oh dear.....

Yes, if you read between the lines it’s all quite simple:

French = heroic and brave
British = cowardly backstabbers.

What a shame. The truth of course is never that simple. Did the French provide the bulk of the rear-guard that enabled so many Allied troops to escape? Yes. Was their action heroic and to be applauded and honoured? Yes.
But as I said, things are not that simple.

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

I always laugh when Americans try to bash the French.

We (the Brits) have bee doing it for over a thousand years, and we aren't stopping anytime soon. (the reverse is also true)



Only a politician could come up with the idea of "sharing a CV." Its never going to work out in the long run.

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I remember reading that Goering convinced Hitler that his Air Force could finish the job. The army more than happy to let Goering fall on his sword obliged and stopped.