Matrix Games Forums

On the map for the Elsenborn Ridge Scenario, the map visually does not match the map right click info. In two locations, it looks like land but acts like a river. I have attached a picture. V4.4.263

and another location:

regards,

davidx

I believe this is a feature, not a bug. The game uses a 100m grid, which effectively means that the visual representations of terrain features do not match 100% (most of the time resulting in the feature being slightly moved to a side from its visual graphic).

100m is the smallest unit in the game, so if you for instance create a road near a river - closer than those 100m - it would effectively make a crossing through the river, even if the graphical lines do not overlap. So beware (for the map editor)!

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

I believe this is a feature, not a bug. The game uses a 100m grid, which effectively means that the visual representations of terrain features do not match 100% (most of the time resulting in the feature being slightly moved to a side from its visual graphic).

100m is the smallest unit in the game, so if you for instance create a road near a river - closer than those 100m - it would effectively make a crossing through the river, even if the graphical lines do not overlap. So beware (for the map editor)!

Given where it's located near the Allied front, and the fact it crosses a path which allows both motorized and foot traffic into some heights, my suspicion is it's the best the scenario designer / map maker could do to mimic a minefield or counter mobility obstacle which neither foot nor motorized traffic could traverse.

It's the best that can be done absent counter mobility modelling in the simulation.

Isn't it Dragon's Teeth right there?

If it isn't then it may be an error (despite the grid point mentioned above making it difficult to sometimes tell what's what - the safest way sometimes being to use the avoidance route tool to see where features end, or where exactly bridges are, for example) - but it may be an error as surely there shouldn't be a major river just there?

Daz has been playing this scenario a lot. Did you notice it there, Daz?

I just checked. That wavy line is meant to be the Hockerlinie right there, I believe (check google earth and you will see it still), so Jim is right - the designer is imitating the movement effects of the concrete lines. Not very well, perhaps - since you would think infantry could move through tank traps at a slower rate, not be barred completely.

Yes I have noticed it before, and made a post about it a while back.
I looked into it and decided it was probably put there to represent an obstacle this is impassable to foot and motor.
I thought that it may have been a very boggy area in the winter of 1944, when looking at Google Earth, but that kind of terrain would have been better represented by marsh or lake than major river.

Like Jim said it may well be there to represent defences that where impassable to foot as well as vehicles, and the Hockerlini only prevents passage of vehicles, so may have been put in for that reason.

Or it may just have been left in there by mistake.

Who built these scenarios anyway.

They did an amazing job, and I have had many hours of enjoyment from them.
Thank you, whoever you are [&o]

Thanks for the kind words - the scenarios were a collaborative effort but this particular one was researched and designed mostly by yours truly. I also did the research for the dragon's teeth locations on all the maps.

Strangely enough, my maps correctly show Hockerlinie (dragon's teeth). I think I used the major river obstacle during early beta testing and I need to look into why it has carried over to your release versions.

I've been remiss for a while but lately I'm able to devote some time to address some of the issues that are popping up (like supply in the airborne scenarios), but only those that deal with data; I'm not a programmer.

Here's what I have from the mapmaker. Does anybody in the customer base have the hockerlinie tile?

Hi simovitch.
That was an amazing job you guys did on the Elsenborn scenario, and must have taken many hours of work.
Thanks [&o]

I have overlayed the Hockerlinie onto a map showing the major river sections, and lowered the opacity so you can see it through them.
As for the title It just says Hockelinie?

Daz, I'm not sure what you are trying to show me, but it's my day off so my brain is napping elsewhere. Do you have what I have for the Losheim Map, or not?

Just to note, the maps that have the dragon's teeth have a unique terrain definition. These maps are Losheim, Rocherathkrinkelt, Hofen, and Ouren. If someone could check these maps and tell me what they see for these dragon's teeth graphics I would appreciate it. The 'major river' ID is not right for sure.

I'm going out of town in a few hours, so I won't be able to respond much until Sunday night.

When you go into the map maker and turn off the Hockerlini layer can you not see the Major river sections that have been left under it like I can on mine?

Here is another image of the Major River sections selected, with the Hockerlinie layer turned off.

I'm my previous image I overlaid the Hockelinie and lowered the opacity (made it see through)to help you locate exactly where the river sections where.
In the screen shot you showed above, you where trying to locate it in the wrong section of Hockerlinie.

I see what you are showing me. I'll get to this tomorrow and let you know what I find.

OK, so my maps have the same major river tiles. These were an attempt to block out the roads from crossing the dragon's teeth. The alternative was to remove those road segments, which I could do I suppose. No real effect on gameplay here but I might clean it up for the next patch.

I thought it would have been for something like that. Its certainly not a game breaker, but can be a bit confusing for new people to the game.