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Helicopters
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:22 pm
by wodin
I'd like to see Heli's use elevation more..staying low then popping up to take out targets. At the minute it seems they just fly around where everyone can spot them and are easy targets. I don't see any kind of tactic being used by the Tac AI with them. It's abit difficult due to having very few elevation rises.Not sure how many meters each elevation is supposed to be..but I think things like Helicopters need a more refined elevation modeled..i.e elevation increments to be alot less than currently modeled. This would give more options for helicopters on the attack and defense. You would be able to have them low behind a hill..then pop up taking the enemy by surprise then dropping back down again to find another ambush site.
When radar unit is detected I'd like to see or be able to use units with radar homing missiles that fire at the signature when detected if in range and in comms with the detecting unit. I don't know much about Modern warfare..is this sort of thing possible..a unit detects a radar signature and tells a unit to fire a missile which will then home in on said sig..or does the unit detecting the sig need to be the one firing the missile? Not sure how these missiles work and if they can be fired in the direction and will then pick up the radar signature. Just at the moment I'm being told all about these radar signatures and apart from manually giving Arty bombardments it seems there is nothing "special" you can do with the info.
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:22 pm
by CapnDarwin
The game does run helos low and gives them cover benefits of terrain masking. You are looking for more of a popup attack mechanic and I understand what you are saying. We can look at tweaking the helo AI to use more of a popup style when screening to improve defense (terrain type being a big player) and limit exposure and spotting to short popup windows. Maybe throw a few hints like "Conducting Popup Attack" or some such thing.
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:25 pm
by wodin
Sounds perfect.
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:00 am
by TheWombat_matrixforum
ORIGINAL: wodin
I'd like to see Heli's use elevation more..staying low then popping up to take out targets. At the minute it seems they just fly around where everyone can spot them and are easy targets. I don't see any kind of tactic being used by the Tac AI with them. It's abit difficult due to having very few elevation rises.Not sure how many meters each elevation is supposed to be..but I think things like Helicopters need a more refined elevation modeled..i.e elevation increments to be alot less than currently modeled. This would give more options for helicopters on the attack and defense. You would be able to have them low behind a hill..then pop up taking the enemy by surprise then dropping back down again to find another ambush site.
When radar unit is detected I'd like to see or be able to use units with radar homing missiles that fire at the signature when detected if in range and in comms with the detecting unit. I don't know much about Modern warfare..is this sort of thing possible..a unit detects a radar signature and tells a unit to fire a missile which will then home in on said sig..or does the unit detecting the sig need to be the one firing the missile? Not sure how these missiles work and if they can be fired in the direction and will then pick up the radar signature. Just at the moment I'm being told all about these radar signatures and apart from manually giving Arty bombardments it seems there is nothing "special" you can do with the info.
Generally, the firing unit needs to illuminate the target itself, with its fire control radar. While initial detection can be handed off from a separate early warning radar, most of the radar guided SAMS we're talking about here need to be guided to their targets by the their own fire control system. The "radar signature" in these cases is from actively illuminating the target. There are weapons, like HARMs, that seek out and home in on enemy units that are themselves emanating signals, but AFAIK most SAMs don't work that way. IR SAMs, of course, do not need radar "lock on."
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:50 pm
by SteveD64
As a general question, does it matter what posture the Helios are in? Wondering if they affected like ground units when in Screen or Assault etc
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:45 am
by Lowlaner2012
Hi Cleveland.
I loaded up a scenario with helicopters in it just to experiment, the ate up scenario if you want to have a play.
I used my Kiowas to scout the Soviets positions, I moved them using the deliberate move order over forested terrain (for cover) and never got closer than say 4-5 hexes, they remained in a covered posture and remained un-spotted, they spotted several soviet units which they then started calling in artillery against, the reds where getting a right hammering
I then moved in some Cobra's with the same deliberate move order over the same covered forested terrain, now the weather is raining with a visibility of 2000m or 4 hexes, but because of the Cobras all weather ability (thermal imaging) they can see way further than the Kiowas or Soviet units, at say around 6-8 hexes they started firing there Tow's and hydras blowing chunks out of the soviet units.
I also used the screen order so that the choppers could move away from any potential new threat, which the Kiowas have managed to do, I have not lost one chopper yet..
Hope this helps, like I say you can load up the ate up scenario and have a practice
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:26 am
by loki100
would agree with this - an early, and easy, mistake is to use the helicopters as an assault weapon. Even with the Soviet Mi-24s I find they are more effective with screen orders and am starting to try to use them in one of two roles.
If its to deal with the NATO front line, then in close conjunction with ground elements - you can set up all sorts of nasty kill zones including near complete envelopment, but keep the helicopters on screen and they will dodge around rather than risk being static (particularly important if you use limited orders).
My new favourite is to go hunting behind the lines. Try to find artillery/HQ concentrations, and then call in artillery and use the helicopters for a direct assault. Does wonders to wreck your opponents CCC.
With NATO, as with highlandcharge, I like setting up a concealed observation option - then call in the artillery as the Soviets are moving to combat - if you are really lucky, when they are moving up in road order [;)]
Also if you go deep it makes the placement of the better AA units a real challenge. To protect the front lines or to protect the rear areas - its this sort of rock/paper/scissors trade off that makes this such a superb game.
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:50 am
by CapnDarwin
I think this thread is transforming into a "how-to" more than a needs a look. Which is fine. I have Wodins info and I'm going to move this to the War Room for further do's and don'ts. [8D]
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:47 pm
by SteveD64
thanks for Helio tips!
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:06 pm
by Mad Russian
US helicopter units are generally deployed in Pink Teams in the game. This is a tactic that matches an OH-58 Scout (White) with an AH-64 or AH-1 Attack (Red) helicopter units together. The OH can call in fire from afar and the AH can deal with things directly. This is a deadly combination that was created and fine tuned during the Vietnam War and continues in use through today.
Good Hunting.
MR
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:29 am
by Radagy
More than once my OH-58s switched by themselves from screen stance to resupply stance right in the middle of heavy AA fire coming from the soviets.
As a result they didn't move for ten minutes until, at last, they were all shot down.
Is there a way to avoid this?
I guess the AI should discern there is a time to flee and a time to resupply.
RE: Helicopters
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:12 pm
by GloriousRuse
Frankly, Hinds are downright terrifying...especially in smaller scenarios. In a large scenario, the combination of ADA fire, fire from infantry elements, and a smattering of machine gun fire from everyone else can blunt most helicopter attacks. But when you only have two-three companies or so, losing 5-6 vehicles for essentially free is a game changer.