Matrix Games Forums

Gentlemen and lady (I don't think there are more than one of you ), I have a conundrum. I love my German motorcycles. They have the ability to find the enemy quickly and engage him until the rest of my units arrive, all without the inherent liability of a mechanized unit. That is, they can move up quickly without running the risk of one shot/assault taking the unit out of play for the rest of the mission.

There is a problem, though. Their ammo is about half that of the regular infantry, meaning that at best they don't have the ammo to carry the fight when support arrives, or at worst they run out of ammo before support arrives, which can be devastating.

Should I change them over to another unit? I see the following options; feel free to comment on them and/or offer your own advice.

1.) Change the 13 Motorcycle squads into an ad hoc PanzerGrenadier unit.

2.) Change the 13 Motorcycle squads into Special Ops squads to go with the 9 other SpecOps squads I already have.

3.) Keep them as Motorcycles and work around their problems.

The year is '41. I'm hesitant to take route #1, because in but one year I'll be upgrading my units due to the wonderful arrival of the MG42. Route #2, as you are well aware, is a crapshoot: Maybe they'll arrive in time for the fight, maybe not. (But with 21 units, I'd have a better chance of getting SOME into the fight...) And #3, well, that's doable, but I'm wondering if there isn't a better option?

A0) GE HQ

B0) Command Post (used in the arty park)

C/K0) SS Rifle Squad '38 (C/O's)

D/E/F/L/M/N0-3) SS Rifle Squad (Major Push Element)
D/E/F/L/M/N4) SS MG34 HMG (Defensive Position/Offensive Overwatch)
D/E/F/L/M/N5) 50mm Mortar Squad (Area Denial)

G/J/O0-2) GE Special Ops Squad (Infiltration or Elite Infantry)

H/P1-2) PzB 39 ATR (Anti-Crew duties, H/T or Truck killers)

I/Q0-1) SdKfz251/2 (Quick Response Arty, Infantry Grinder)

R0) PzKpfwIVc (C/O, 1 SS Panzer Co.)

S0-5) PzKpfwIVd (Major Push Element)

T0-2) SdKfz231 8-Rad (Scout/Engage infantry, trucks, arty)
T3-5) SdKfz251/10 (Scout/Engage Armour, infantry)

U0-2) PzKpfw 35(t) (Anti-Armour, Secondary Push Element)
U3-5) PzKpfw 38(t) (Anti-Armour, Secondary Push Element)

V0-1) 88mm Flak18 (Exploiter of Infantry Clumps, A/T)
V2-3) 88mm Flak18 AT (A/T, Exploiter of Inf. Clumps)

W0) GE Mcycle Squad (C/O, 1 SS Mcycle Co.)

X/Y/Z/AA0-2) GE Mcycle Squad (Scout/Engage infantry)

AB-AE0) GE Engineer Squad (Minelaying, clearing)
AF-AH0) GE Recon Team (Rear Security)
AI-AM0) GE Sniper (Rear Security)

Generally, Mcycles pick up the enemy and pin him down, also providing targets for A0 to give to arty elements. The T Platoon arrives and pins down the armour, the rest of the Panzers arrive and start blowing bloody hell through enemy ranks. The 88's get moved up next, but tend to work at long range to keep the enemy on his toes (and keep them alive). FINALLY, the SS infantry squads arrive (preceeded by the Spec Ops units, if deployed as leg infantry), and the battle wraps up before I have to call in the Engineers or Rear Security elements.

In the defense, the Motorcycles mingle with the SS infantry to work as scouts with survivability... but generally we all tend to look for the reverse-slope with a supporting hill or forest behind it.

SpecOps units have only recently been used as infiltrators, and with careful position consideration (and some luck) they spot great arty targets, attack arty parks, or even assault tanks rushing to the front.

Again, any comments or suggestions, especially about the unit change I'm pondering, would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Never change a winning team...
or not?

Heh, I'd be tempted to agree, except these Hell's Angels have been running low on ammo (eg, out of MG34 ammo and ~10 Kar98k ammo) facing just Poles and French; I'm... concerned... about the Russians. A wave of Russians could exploit the hole left by a single squad that's run out of ammo. ^_^;

Doesn't the Command Post get in the way of moving the artillery around? An oft repeated axiom (axiom = something accepted as fact until someone proves it isn't) of the game is that the on-board artillery needs to be moved occassionally to keep it from being targeted for bombardment itself. Having a Command Post, while providing really good morale and maybe increasing other qualities, seems to require anchoring the artillery in a zone 10 hexes across the flats.

While on the artillery subject, I don't see any FO units in the mix. While having the A0 spot is effective, generally the FO has a higher Artilly Command Rating which results in both faster and more accurate response. The REALLY BIG (200 units) core I put together has three FOs, two on foot and one tracked. Between them and the A0 I get a minimum of three possible fire missions each turn; more often it's between 5 and 9, occassionaly 10. (I should point out that I always play with C&C on -- considering the ability of the AI, it makes it at least a reasonable fight.)

The C/P does, and it's really an experimental unit for me. However, the AI doesn't target smoke hexes. (I believe it's a dirty trick, but acceptable--after all, you could probably see the smoke rising from arty positions after a few turns.)

I don't use C&C; I hand-pick my NCO's and officers, and my men get to know what I know. I can almost always hit the enemy in the same turn that I target arty--thanks to a good post on Gold Spots. I try to keep the enemy pinned down on or near them. Even if I have to target off one, it's just one turn later that the bombs fall, and then the delay is 0.1. (I also believe in arty targetting for itself. Why couldn't they? Like I said, my men are hand-picked get to know what I know. I trust them to make these decisions.) I /have/ heard that F/O's can add up to 50% to arty accuracy and lethality, though... I may change A0 to an F/O of some sort, and the CP into a (mobile?) ammo dump. (Hell, I changed it to a coastal gun for a defensive battle... that was FUN! )

Why not use an ammo supply with your M/C units?

Originally posted by Redleg
Why not use an ammo supply with your M/C units?

That's an interesting idea... Switching the C/P to an ammo truck would allow that too... then all I'd have to do is draw them back unit (or Platoon) by unit (or Platoon) to get refilled. Thanks Redleg

Hmmm... see? I love these forums. Still, other opinions/advice are very welcome. You may help someone else out too.

Ammo truck is really vulnerable used liked that. Pehaps less so playing against AI, but still...
Reading back though your posts, I think you may let them get too far ahead of the rest of you forces. You T platoon should always be able to catch up with them the same turn. Use them to suppress, not your MCs. Those should hold their fire until close range.
Ie option #3. You could try upgrading some of your armed halftracks to SP guns, preferably the largest bore available.