Page 1 of 1
My 2 cents
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:07 pm
by jzardos
ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur
there are many know bugs.
just have fun with the game, and we will send out patches regularly.
Just had to respond on this point and concept.
Lol, are you serious? 'there are many know bugs. just have fun with the game, and we will send out patches regularly."
Here's my points about this game.
- Why release a game that is basically not polished and has many issues, known and of course the expected unknowns.
- The community has already waited about a decade, so one more year would be fine by me to have complete and polished product.
- have the purchasers of computer strategy games been lowered so much in their standards and morality that we're willing to pay top $ for products like these? It only hurts the reputation of the people/devs/tester (respect highly by the way) that have slaved so hard to make this incredible product a reality.
- if Matrix and devs had just waited to make this product the best it could be on release day (one more year.. idc), they could have bucked the trend of releasing products that are just not ready for prime time. The experience I had with HOI soured me for life with Paradox and how they abused its community with crap.
It's just baffles me why Matrix and this extremely ground breaking undertaking of MWitF would not just wait until they could shock the world with a product that is mature in all respects. The community would forever be grateful and the reputation of Matrix / Devs would be forever immortalized. I know there existed immense pressure to release MWiF this year, but weighing the pros and cons as a consumer (and some knowledge of product development), it just doesn't see worth the risk to the community and reputation.
I will most likely buy this game, although after many patches later, because I respect and want to contribute to development of these types of games and undertakings by developers. Although I will forever feel that MWiF was a huge opportunity to forever change the expectations / experience of computer games with initial releases of this magnitude. [:(]
Bless your hearts Matrix and devs for trying to do the right things, sorry I just don't agree with the premature release. All said, I will stay positive going forward and do what I can to contribute to the success (constructive form posts on game mechanics and bugs) of MWiF.
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:13 pm
by goulash
ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur
there are many know bugs.
just have fun with the game, and we will send out patches regularly.
[/quote]
I like that Dev and may have bought the game just for the fact that that was a funny yet honest statement (don't see a lot of that nowadays).
Still not buying it though as am not now only expected to pay addition money for manuals but the game has bugs anyway??? Just wow
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:53 pm
by jzardos
Bottom line is we buy games to play and enjoy / relax. Kind of anti-productive paying large sum for a game that is only going to initially (until patches and many months of adjusting/enhancing UI) add to your stress and frustration trying while attempting to have fun. Think we all have enough stress and frustration in our work / personal lives. We shouldn't have to pay more more of the same? [&:]
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:13 pm
by FroBodine
There are many known bugs in WiF? I haven't read that in any threads in this forum. Are you talking about this game?
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:17 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: jzardos
Bottom line is we buy games to play and enjoy / relax. Kind of anti-productive paying large sum for a game that is only going to initially (until patches and many months of adjusting/enhancing UI) add to your stress and frustration trying while attempting to have fun. Think we all have enough stress and frustration in our work / personal lives. We shouldn't have to pay more more of the same? [&:]
As I said elsewhere: bugs are in the eye of the beholder.
I still have a large task list remaining for MWIF. The more important items have already been mentioned: additional optional rules, the half map scenarios, NetPlay for 6 players. Erik also posted about some known bugs in NetPlay, which I am currently working on.
But most of the items on my task list do not concern known bugs. For instance, I want to include more sound effects and historical videos. I want to improve some aspects of the player interface.
I also have items on my task list concerning reported bugs that no one can reproduce. Since bug reports from beta testers often involve them restoring saved games that were created years ago (e.g., 2009), some reported bugs turn out to occur because the saved game is damaged or too antiquated. Frequently beta testers report 'bugs' that turn out to be the program following the rules - rules that the beta tester didn't understand correctly.
Tracking down hypothetical bugs is something I spend way too much time on. I think of that as time spent "chasing ghosts". Making absolutely sure that everything is perfect is simply not a viable choice if I want anyone to ever play the game.
Minor bugs are just that, minor. I'll get to them eventually but they shouldn't impact a player's enjoyment of the game.
---
That's about it for my involvement in this discussion. I have a lot to do.
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:22 am
by Dorb
I'm guessing more folks would have been screaming if they didn't go ahead and release it. This was a ripe fruit that needed to be picked - now. Anymore delay would have brought revolution.[;)]
Plus when was the last time you bought a game these days that was completely finished at launch?
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:24 am
by juntoalmar
ORIGINAL: jzardos
- The community has already waited about a decade, so one more year would be fine by me to have complete and polished product.
- if Matrix and devs had just waited to make this product the best it could be on release day (one more year.. idc), they could have bucked the trend of releasing products that are just not ready for prime time. The experience I had with HOI soured me for life with Paradox and how they abused its community with crap.
I understand your point of view but I'm happy with Steve/Matrix decision. And I think it has best of both worlds:
- Those who don't care about little bugs and some features not ready yet (AI, PBEM, 6 players) and want to buy it, they'll do.
- Those who care about these same issues and would have preferred Matrix to wait one more year to have all those fixed: they can wait until the features are coded and bugs fixed to buy it.
I think it makes happy both of us, no?
[;)]
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:40 am
by goulash
I caved in and bought it and do not regret my final choice. Ok stubborn at first for like a 2hr period but eventually the lure seduced me into getting it.
Only half way through the videos and I am going to watch them twice anyway.
Bye the time I probably get to full grips with the game itself, I bet it will be updated numerous times any and can only be one of those things that gets better.
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:40 pm
by DSWargamer
Crashing to desktop is a bug.
Not displaying is a bug.
In my experience, most wargamers make a lot of noise over 'accuracy' issues, and demand 'patches' to fix those issues and they get addressed in updates, and likely don't deserve to be referred to as 'bugs.
Is the game perfect? Hell this game will never get called perfect in all likelihood. Consider how long the board game has been fidgeted with.
I thought Steel Panthers was awesome the day I found it in 1997. It went to 8.43 before it was allowed to retire, and the gang yet still hammers away at it unofficially. The SP Camo versions refuse to discontinue tweaking.
Some games have no such state known as 'finished'.
I fired the game up the other day, and it ran. Passed the only fundamental test I normally require of software. Did it run.
I likely will see patches all through the first year of this game, and won't hold it as having been released unfairly.
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:42 pm
by HansHafen
Just wait a year to buy J. You don't have to buy now. Let us work out the bugs for you. Problem solved!
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:46 pm
by jerrystead
ORIGINAL: jzardos
ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur
there are many know bugs.
just have fun with the game, and we will send out patches regularly.
Just had to respond on this point and concept.
Lol, are you serious? 'there are many know bugs. just have fun with the game, and we will send out patches regularly."
Here's my points about this game.
- Why release a game that is basically not polished and has many issues, known and of course the expected unknowns.
- The community has already waited about a decade, so one more year would be fine by me to have complete and polished product.
- have the purchasers of computer strategy games been lowered so much in their standards and morality that we're willing to pay top $ for products like these? It only hurts the reputation of the people/devs/tester (respect highly by the way) that have slaved so hard to make this incredible product a reality.
- if Matrix and devs had just waited to make this product the best it could be on release day (one more year.. idc), they could have bucked the trend of releasing products that are just not ready for prime time. The experience I had with HOI soured me for life with Paradox and how they abused its community with crap.
It's just baffles me why Matrix and this extremely ground breaking undertaking of MWitF would not just wait until they could shock the world with a product that is mature in all respects. The community would forever be grateful and the reputation of Matrix / Devs would be forever immortalized. I know there existed immense pressure to release MWiF this year, but weighing the pros and cons as a consumer (and some knowledge of product development), it just doesn't see worth the risk to the community and reputation.
I will most likely buy this game, although after many patches later, because I respect and want to contribute to development of these types of games and undertakings by developers. Although I will forever feel that MWiF was a huge opportunity to forever change the expectations / experience of computer games with initial releases of this magnitude. [:(]
Bless your hearts Matrix and devs for trying to do the right things, sorry I just don't agree with the premature release. All said, I will stay positive going forward and do what I can to contribute to the success (constructive form posts on game mechanics and bugs) of MWiF.
Hi jzardos,
Wow that's unreal. Where did michaelbaldur originally post that? I've got to see this...
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:20 pm
by ezzler
Played Barbarossa through now.
Only bug was the missing combat odds but that turns out to be solved by changing font size..[see elsewhere]
And I kept losing air when an HQ moved off as there does not appear to be a warning that this will cause over stack and unit scrap. or if there is I missed it.
Anyway - no bugs to report. Don't know what the complaint is. I'm happy. First time i've played WIF in about 15 years.
Is the negative poster the one who always said the game would never be released and it was just vapour ware?
RE: My 2 cents
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:05 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: ezz
Played Barbarossa through now.
Only bug was the missing combat odds but that turns out to be solved by changing font size..[see elsewhere]
And I kept losing air when an HQ moved off as there does not appear to be a warning that this will cause over stack and unit scrap. or if there is I missed it.
Anyway - no bugs to report. Don't know what the complaint is. I'm happy. First time i've played WIF in about 15 years.
Is the negative poster the one who always said the game would never be released and it was just vapour ware?
If your floor is bouncing, that's me dancing a little jig.[:D] All thanks to the beta testers.[&o][&o][&o][&o]