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People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:39 pm
by Numdydar
Having just gotten mine, I really feel soory for those that think reading this on an eReader is the same thing. I'm glad you you think doing so is better for you, but I am serious in saying you really do not know what you are missing.
I have spend the entire day sitting in a comfortable chair just reading these wonderful books. I also have an iPad I could have been reading on while I waited for these, but I chose not to. I am very glad I waited and used that time to waitch the videos and go thriough the interactive ones. While I love my iPad and love having all my books, etc. available on it, it does not really convey the scope of the game the way the manuls do.
So if you you REALLY don't want the manuals I'm glad you are ok with that. If on the other hand you think the PDF is just as good, I have to tell you that you are totally wrong. And yes I know you can search and set bookmarks, etc. in a PDF, but it is my opnion that this still pales in comparison to using these manulals.
This is an amazing job by Matrix. I just wish every game, like WitP AE, WitE, [:)], could be treated this way.
EDIT:
I wanted to add that this post is not meant to pick on people that live in areas where the shipping costs make getting the books very expensive, like New Zealand as an example. I totally understand the cost issues involved there. But if shipping costs are NOT too high, then my comments above are how I feel [:)]
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:41 pm
by Dr. Foo
To each is own. I get that people would have preferred a choice. Such as, a lower price point if you do not want the books. Personally, without seeing the books I would have gone for the lower price. However, now that I have the books if given the choice I would take the books over a lower priced digital only option. They are extremely high quality and very easy to read. I'm glad I got them and when taken into consideration what I paid, I think it's a deal.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:38 pm
by msvknight
The issue is not about wanting the manual. The issue is that sending the manuals to me here in Australia has added $47.00 AUD to the cost. While I am happy to pay $113.99 for the game (even for the download alone), the addition of a 40% premium (paid to a courier company not Matrix) made it the most expensive game I have ever bought by a fair margin. US customers paying a fifth of that are probably less concerned, but a $160.00 game purchase was a fairly hard sell to my wife.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:11 am
by Gizuria
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Having just gotten mine, I really feel soory for those that think reading this on an eReader is the same thing. I'm glad you you think doing so is better for you, but I am serious in saying you really do not know what you are missing.
I have spend the entire day sitting in a comfortable chair just reading these wonderful books. I also have an iPad I could have been reading on while I waited for these, but I chose not to. I am very glad I waited and used that time to waitch the videos and go thriough the interactive ones. While I love my iPad and love having all my books, etc. available on it, it does not really convey the scope of the game the way the manuls do.
So if you you REALLY don't want the manuals I'm glad you are ok with that. If on the other hand you think the PDF is just as good, I have to tell you that you are totally wrong. And yes I know you can search and set bookmarks, etc. in a PDF, but it is my opnion that this still pales in comparison to using these manulals.
This is an amazing job by Matrix. I just wish every game, like WitP AE, WitE, [:)], could be treated this way.
I can't imagine anybody bought this game just for the manuals. [&:] Most of us bought it for the computer game so as we can finally play a full game through to completion. Of course, a deluxe hard-bound book is a much better reading experience than an i-pad/e-reader experience but I honestly don't care about that. I paid my money to
play the game.[8D]
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:35 am
by 76mm
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
If on the other hand you think the PDF is just as good, I have to tell you that you are totally wrong.
Really? Do you also want to tell me what my favorite color should be, what TV shows I should watch, and while we're at it, what wargames I should play? No thanks, I think I'll keep making my own decisions.
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
This is an amazing job by Matrix. I just wish every game, like WitP AE, WitE, [:)], could be treated this way.
Great idea, and maybe Matrix could us make us buy buggy-whips with every game as well? You know, really nice leather ones, braided and supple, its a shame no one uses them anymore.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:01 am
by Solaristics
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Having just gotten mine, I really feel soory for those that think reading this on an eReader is the same thing. I'm glad you you think doing so is better for you, but I am serious in saying you really do not know what you are missing.
Well, I had a specialist printer convert the manuals to papyrus scrolls. I can tell you, you have not experienced reading until you have read something on a scroll. It leaves that new fangled codex technology for dead. Also, I had it translated into Klingon, a proper martial language - I feel sorry for those that are reading it in mealy-mouthed English.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:19 am
by shaddock
I've got first batch of clay tablets drying in the backyard right now. In a few weeks I should be able to start chiseling the first few pages of RAC. The thing that worries me the most is how to bind them into book form [:D]
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:25 am
by Neilster
ORIGINAL: shaddock
I've got first batch of clay tablets drying in the backyard right now. In a few weeks I should be able to start chiseling the first few pages of RAC. The thing that worries me the most is how to bind them into book form [:D]
You're doing it all wrong. Clay tablets need cuneiform script impressed on them with a blunt reed
before they dry! Converting all the tables to base 60 mathematics is the really hard bit [;)]
Cheers, Neilster
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:43 am
by Solaristics
Clay tablets, cuneiform, base 60? I marvel at your technology! I have been negotiating with the French authorities to get access to the Lascaux Caves, and have commissioned an artist to use original pigments to paint the manuals on the unused spaces on the cave. I'm then going to get them chiselled off and shipped to me.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:03 pm
by DSWargamer
I understand....... that people wanted this game to be a comfortable purchase. A nice computer game purchase like all the rest. Where they could sit and complain, oooooh come on, 70 bucks is asking too much, get with the program, this is 2013, I should be able to get a digital download for slightly less, 60 bucks eh. And then there would be those waiting for the seasonal sale in 2 years and wanting it for 50 bucks. And then the person expecting it in 5 years to be massively discounted, because it's an old game.
I suppose some simply can't wrap their head around the idea, that World in Flames is a BOARD GAME, and through a generous arrangement, ADG has made it ok to put it into computer form, make it possible to display it on a computer, and have it as a means to defeat the need for a room killing map monster.
But it's till a board game. ADG COULD have said, no, and not allowed anyone to make it into the computer version it is.
Yeah they COULD have made it a digital download, no damned books. But that likely was never the objective.
If it had been me, I would not have made the pdf files. It would have solved the problem. I guess Slitherine Group has learned a valuable lesson here.
As for the cost, hmm I could start listing all the other notable, and famous wargames, all board games, that generally speaking don't cost 10s of dollars, but hundreds of dollars. I know of plenty that cost 200 and 300 bucks. I know that ASL has single modules that cost as much as computer World in Flames. And the shipping isn't free, they are not sold by Amazon.
It is unfortunate that Slitherine Group has made an error in the case of this game, in assessing the reaction by some, of being told the manuals were part of the purchase. It's unfortunate some parts of the planet suck.
The game is sold WITH manuals, in the same way board games are sold WITH counters. It's part of the product.
I do wish people would stop crying about their pockets. Yes you can't afford it, yes life is hard, yes you still want it.
I wish I could afford 32nd scale aircraft kits. But they tend to range in the 150 dollar zone. So I stick to the more affordable 72nd scale range.
It's called accepting your limitations. Not complaining about the price.
I tend to buy kits by order in person at the store. I tend to pay 30% more this way. I might get them online cheaper. But they also demand I use plastic. And I don't like that. I like being able to order something and pay a local business person cash.
You only get what you pay for in life.
And sometimes you have to pay more than you might like.
Your alternative is as always, you can always go without.
Enjoy the books. They are awesome. Or not, your choice. Stop crying about them though eh.
Some of us are out here facepalming thinking that some of you are making the hobby look like it is rife with spoiled entitled brats disguised as old men.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:12 pm
by shaddock
For my 2 cents, I was ecstatic to pay less than $200 for the game, manuals, and most importantly for me, the maps. I was quite prepared to pay $250 for all.
I also come here for great info on the game. Like the proper way to use clay tablets [:D]
PS I'd wish I could afford a 1/16th scale r/c aircraft carrier and 1/16th scale r/c jets to take off and land on it. Always a dream of mine.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:39 pm
by Numdydar
Thanks for the feedback [:)]. I really enjoyed the sarcasm lol. Very creative.
I guess some took my comments the wrong way as I was not try to disparage anyone's choices about the manuals, their own opinions on the topic, or trying to force them to do anything that they did not want to do. I was just expressing my opinion that after seeing these manuals, I just could not imagine why anyone would NOT want them, providing shipping costs are not extreme.
I still think those that do not want the manuals are really missing out, but that is your choice to make. We just will have to disagree and move on [:)]
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:50 pm
by Solaristics
Very sporting of you! [:)] We're just having some fun, and no malice intended to you at all, as you rightly discerned. We're all here (hopefully) because we're looking forward to enjoying this game at some point.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:57 pm
by AxelNL
ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I understand....... that people wanted this game to be a comfortable purchase. A nice computer game purchase like all the rest. Where they could sit and complain, oooooh come on, 70 bucks is asking too much, get with the program, this is 2013, I should be able to get a digital download for slightly less, 60 bucks eh. And then there would be those waiting for the seasonal sale in 2 years and wanting it for 50 bucks. And then the person expecting it in 5 years to be massively discounted, because it's an old game.
I suppose some simply can't wrap their head around the idea, that World in Flames is a BOARD GAME, and through a generous arrangement, ADG has made it ok to put it into computer form, make it possible to display it on a computer, and have it as a means to defeat the need for a room killing map monster.
But it's till a board game. ADG COULD have said, no, and not allowed anyone to make it into the computer version it is.
Yeah they COULD have made it a digital download, no damned books. But that likely was never the objective.
If it had been me, I would not have made the pdf files. It would have solved the problem. I guess Slitherine Group has learned a valuable lesson here.
As for the cost, hmm I could start listing all the other notable, and famous wargames, all board games, that generally speaking don't cost 10s of dollars, but hundreds of dollars. I know of plenty that cost 200 and 300 bucks. I know that ASL has single modules that cost as much as computer World in Flames. And the shipping isn't free, they are not sold by Amazon.
It is unfortunate that Slitherine Group has made an error in the case of this game, in assessing the reaction by some, of being told the manuals were part of the purchase. It's unfortunate some parts of the planet suck.
The game is sold WITH manuals, in the same way board games are sold WITH counters. It's part of the product.
I do wish people would stop crying about their pockets. Yes you can't afford it, yes life is hard, yes you still want it.
I wish I could afford 32nd scale aircraft kits. But they tend to range in the 150 dollar zone. So I stick to the more affordable 72nd scale range.
It's called accepting your limitations. Not complaining about the price.
I tend to buy kits by order in person at the store. I tend to pay 30% more this way. I might get them online cheaper. But they also demand I use plastic. And I don't like that. I like being able to order something and pay a local business person cash.
You only get what you pay for in life.
And sometimes you have to pay more than you might like.
Your alternative is as always, you can always go without.
Enjoy the books. They are awesome. Or not, your choice. Stop crying about them though eh.
Some of us are out here facepalming thinking that some of you are making the hobby look like it is rife with spoiled entitled brats disguised as old men.
I couldn't agree more. Good post. Thanks.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:57 pm
by Dr. Foo
ORIGINAL: Hondo
Clay tablets, cuneiform, base 60? I marvel at your technology! I have been negotiating with the French authorities to get access to the Lascaux Caves, and have commissioned an artist to use original pigments to paint the manuals on the unused spaces on the cave. I'm then going to get them chiselled off and shipped to me.
I'm going with oral tradition. I'm having a shaman pass down the manuals in oral tradition. The only problem is each time the manual is passed from shaman to shaman it changes slightly. Apparently, now ground units are exempt from the Wrath of God if they get a favorable goat sacrifice die roll.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:58 pm
by Neilster
I'm still unclear about this section on Zones of Control...
Cheers, Neilster
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:08 pm
by Solaristics
ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo
I'm going with oral tradition.
Hmmm, I think you win! Although, perhaps the rules could be rendered into caveman grunts? Like a more elaborate version of the game Ugg-Tect.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:10 pm
by 76mm
ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
But it's till a board game.
uh, actually, no, now it is also a computer game. Played on computer, without board or physical counters. Based on code which Steve apparently spent many (10+?) years programming. I had never heard of the board game, never want the board game, Wouldn't take it or the 9x21 ft map if offered to me for free. Get over it. Sorry to break it to you, but WiF is now--gasp--also a computer game.
ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
If it had been me, I would not have made the pdf files. It would have solved the problem. I guess Slitherine Group has learned a valuable lesson here.
What a very strange and self-centered proposal.
If ADG didn't want a computer game, then they shouldn't have allowed creation of a computer game. But they have, and presumably intend to sell it to people other than current players of the board game or those with a bizarre obsession with paper documents, so they might want to consider accommodating the wishes of these potential customers.
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:11 pm
by 76mm
ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo
I'm going with oral tradition. I'm having a shaman pass down the manuals in oral tradition. The only problem is each time the manual is passed from shaman to shaman it changes slightly. Apparently, now ground units are exempt from the Wrath of God if they get a favorable goat sacrifice die roll.
[:D][:D]
RE: People not wanting the manuals
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:14 pm
by Solaristics
ORIGINAL: Neilster
I'm still unclear about this section on Zones of Control...
Cheers, Neilster
I am unable to make this out because I am viewing it on a 24" 1920x1600 computer monitor. Could you ship me the original clay tablet so I can consult it? Mark it as "(old) books" on the customs declaration, otherwise I'll get charged import duty.