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Made a couple of minor changes to the standard british forces (I'm Ex-british army Infantry and they were bugging me[;)])

Change Log
B1
A. removed the extra 9 81mm mortar tubes (3 per company support), this brings the total down to 8 per battalion as under standard TOE
B. Added 2x handheld SAMs to Battalion HQ to a) compensate for the lost VP/9 tubes in point 1, b) this was standard practice to allocate these from the bde assets
C. redistributed the Milan sections to 1 per company, leaving 1 section and 2 MCT under ATK Plt, this was standard practice and party to compensate for point 1 above
D. 'renamed' Infantry Bn Recce Plt from SHQ to PHQ (has no effect on comms ranges from what I can tell)

B2
A. Added ‘Airmobile Infantry Battalion (83+)’
This is dated from when the concept was first trailed but based on the first formal TOE in 1986 up to 1989 when 2 of the infantry Bn changed their 3rd company to an aviation company of 2 Plt and 1 Atk platoon of 8 Milan Launchers as well as overall increase in ATGM up to 42 or 44 Launchers. The 3rd Bn remained a beefed up Light Role Inf Bn at 24 Launchers.
B. Added: quick selection of 3 different Battlegroups
Armoured Battlegroup
Mechanised Battlegroup
Armoured Infantry Battlegroup
Note, the infantry company in the armoured battlegroup does not have organic mortar support at present while I figure out best of presenting it.

B3
A. Added the following formations;
1.Mechanized Infantry Battalion [wheeled]
2.Infantry Battalion (Light Role/TA)
3.Yeomanry Armoured Recce Regiment (TA)
4.Field Artillery Regiment-105mm (Towed/TA)
5.Field Artillery Regiment-155mm (Towed/TA)
B. Split Batttlegroup quick selection of Armoured Battlegroup into 2 types and infantry coy should now appear ahead of Rgt support coy (sorry tankies but infantry rate higher than support elements!!)
1. 2:1 BG of 2 sqn tanks, 1 coy inf
2. 2:2 BG of 2 sqn tanks, 2 coy inf
C. Updated various naming conventions so that’s they all follow correct British Army naming convention:
1. Tank Rgt – Sqn – Troop
2. Inf Bn – Coy – Platoon
3. Arty Rgt – Bty – Troop
D. Arty Bty HQ elements changed from 2x Inf recce to 1 Inf HQ & 1 Inf recce to better reflect the HQ element (<Divisional Assets> only, <BAOR Corps Assets> unchanged)
E. Changed Tank & Armoured Recce Sqn from ‘Battalion(II)’ to ‘Sqn(I)’ in “Is HQ Of” column G on formation tab
F. Updated Bde HQ with the following to better reflect actual TOE and higher command HQ status
1. Removed the lone Tank
2. Reduced the APCT from 6 down to 2
3. Added COMV*4
G. Div. Arm. Recce Regiment – B – reduced to 3 Recce Sqn with 4th Sqn now SP-ATGW Sqn (original version was 4 recce sqn the same as Div. Arm. Recce Regiment – A)

B4
A. Added Anti-Tank (Airmobile) Infantry Battalion (89+)
B. Revised Airmobile Infantry Battalion (83+) by reducing the number of LAW80 teams (down from 12 to 3 per platoon)
C. Revised a number of ‘crew’ numbers in the units tab (key ones listed below)
1. Harrier reduced to single crew (2 seated variations were training aircraft)
2. MAW/LAW-80 reduced to 2 man teams
3. Milan reduced to 3 man teams
4. HMG reduced to 4 man teams
5. LMG reduced to 2 man teams
6. 2 inch mortar reduced to 2 man team
7. Blowpipe and Javelin teams reduced to 3 man teams
8. Towed & Static Rapier increased to 8 man section
9. 155mm FH-70 How reduced to 8 man
10. 175mm Gun Towed Artillery Gun reduced from 48 down to 12

B5
a. Added INF-HQP (UK112A & UK113A) as a rifle platoon HQ - 4 man ‘crew’ with SLR/SA80, grenades, L9 51mm mortar.
b. Removed 2” mortar as a tem/group, the 2” mortar was ‘upgraded’ to the L9 51mm mortar and only issued to rifle platoon HQ’s (see above)
c. Corrected typo in ‘Scout Helicopter Flight’
d. Reduced helo sections to 2 helo of each type
e. Increased helo sqn to 3 flights (total 12 helo per sqn)
f. GPMG in sustained fire role (GPMG-SF)
1. Created UK117A & UK118A using MG5 and classed it as MMG (SU Type)
2. Changed UK119 & UK120 to LMG (SU Type) – should show as GPMG in unit selection screen
3. Changed infantry battalion references from HMG to MMG so that they use GPMG-SF rather than .50 HMG (.50 cal was not general issue to infantry battalions whereas the GPMG-SF was)
4. Atk sections within ‘Anti-Tank (Airmobile) Infantry Battalion (89+)’ reworked so they now have LMG (GPMG in standard role)
5. Replaced MG team in INF squads (under Low level units) with HMG, MMG, LMG squads
g. Removed ‘BV 202 Mortar’ from armoured and mech inf orbats
1. Created a SPMTRA in low level units for scenario designers to select if required (excluding 5 vehicle platoon)
2. When I get around to creating Royal Marine units they will be present (elevation 10 & snow weather/ground conditions available in game will be my drivers to create these so don’t expect them too soon).
h. Deleted UK172 – Ferret Mk 2/4 – this was being classed as a Self-Propelled Gun with a .30cal MG????, there is however UK129 – Ferret Mk 2/4 which is classed as a recce unit (its true purpose) so deleted UK172 to avoid duplication.
I. Rapier changes:
1.Deleted UK140 & UK141 (Static Rapier & Static Rapier FSB) as the ‘static’ version of Rapier was the towed version.
2.Edited the Towed Rapier (both versions) to SU Type SAM to reflect their setup times when compared against Tracked Rapier (remains as SPSAM)
3.Reworked BAOR Corps Assets to reflect above changes, Corp AD regiments now have 4 bty (2 tracker & 2 towed rapier
4.Renamed crewed weapons from ‘Fixed SAM’ to ‘SAM’
j. Deleted UK166 – Chieftain Mk10 due to duplicate of UK165 but with different dates
k. Reworked Chieftain MBT/versions dates
1.Mk5 1974 – 1980
2.Mk9 1978 – 1985
3.Mk10 1983 – 1988
4.Mk11 1986 – 1990
l. Reworked Centurion MBT dates (see notes below)
m. Updated Armoured Infantry Battlegroup to reflect its general availability date the same as armoured INF BN (88+)

B5a file attached to this post
Corrected typo in UK91 weapon loadout - infantry unit lost its WT70 nuke warhead.....

B5 Notes:
B5A - Unit is flagged as infantry unit so has no command radius or subject to EW locating. Also added unit under ‘low level units’ ‘INF squads’
B5C - this listed the ‘Composition’ as 2HS which did not correspond to anything resulting in scenario designers not able to select a flight or sqn of scout helo (now listed correctly as 3HS)
B5E - although some AAC regiments operated between 12 & 18 helo of each type but need to do more research into each AAC regiment to confirm what the standard ORBAT is and don’t want to cause more headaches for MR/Capt Darwin with the ‘mess’ that is the BAOR orbat &#61514; just yet
B5F - Various sources differ between 2 and 3 GPMG-SF teams allocated to companies, to avoid making coy HQ units too strong I elected to remain at 2 per Coy HQ totalling 6 per INF BN
B5G - , these were used exclusively on NATO northern flank (i.e. Norway) within Royal Marine units. Some logistics units saw limited distribution of the BV202/BV206 during the two Gulf wars and other theatres due to their excellent ability to handle sandy terrain (low PSI pressure and wider tracks saw similar mobility to use in snow/hilly conditions)
B5H - The standard armament on the ferret was a .30 cal other than the 2 ATGW armed versions – 1 with Vigilant the other with Swingfire
B5J - UK165 UK166 are nearly identical apart from UK165 dates 1980 – 1983, while UK166 dates 1984-1989. I suspect this may have been to cover off the Stillbrew armour upgrade yet there is no difference in stats other than the dates. Stillbrew armour was applied to the Mk9 and up-versioned to Mk10, details of upgrade versions in B5K notes below.
B5K – dates now more logical showing a common 2 year overlap for each upgrade programme, exact dates are different depending on which sources looked at but common theme is a 2 year overlap.
a. Mk 5 - Final production variant, with upgrades to the engine and NBC protection system.
b. Mk 9 – this covers Mk6 – Mk9) Incremental upgrades to earlier Marks of tanks, including addition of Clansman radios.
c. Mk10 - addition of Stillbrew Crew Protection Package to the turret front and turret ring.
d. Mk11 - Mark 10 upgrade, searchlight replaced with the Thermal Observation and Gunnery System (TOGS)
The early versions of the chieftain (i.e. Mk2 – Mk4, Mk1 was a training version and only 40 were produced) are not present so there is nearly a 7 year gap where British forces have no MBT, hopefully this will be corrected by the time the date range is expanded.
B5L – Centurion MBT was phased out by mid-late 1960’s as the Chieftain MBT entered service, this means the tank is out of the date range as currently set in game.
That said the Centurion is still used in various engineering guises (FV 4003 Centurion Mk 5 AVRE with 165mm ‘demolition gun’ was used during the 1991 gulf war)

B4 Notes:
A. A number of sources cite this TOE as ranging from 1990 until 1999 when 24th airmobile was merged with the parachute regiment group into 16th air assult bde. All sources agree TOE consisted of 42 Milan Launchers but no confirm where 2 launchers sit (2 coy with 10 each, 1 aviation coy with 8, FS coy with 14 but only list Atk Plt as HQ (2 launchers) and 5 sections (2 launchers each) which totals 40 not 42. I have elected to leave the 2 missing launchers out of the TOE)
B. The airmobile infantry bn were to be supplied with 100 LAW-80, in game each INF section is equipped with LAW-80 with 4 shots. However to better reflect the additional LAW80 provided to the airmobile bn extra LAW-80 teams per platoon have been added but reduced form 12 down to 3 per platoon
C. (10) very little info about the British use of the 175mm towed gun could be found, compared the crew numbers of the 5.5 inch and 7.2 inch gun that were in service until 1950's

B3 Notes:
A1. This represents a number of regular army units ear-marked to reinforce 1 British Corp in the event of war. Only BOAR units received FV432 and later the Warrior, these units used Saxon Wheeled APC as their battletaxi.
A2. A number of BOAR units were held to this TOE as were some UK based units in 2 Inf Div and the early 24th airmobile bde units.
A2. The TA Battalion has 4 Milian launchers (12 v.s. 16) less, so rather than spam formations with minor differences I kept these identical as it’s entirely possible that the TA units would get the extra launchers in wartime.
A3. 2 UK based units were ear-marked as BOAR reinforcements (1 under 2 Inf Div, the other under Corp command.
A4 & A5. There were a number of UK based Arty Rgt both regular and TA that were earmarked for BOAR reinforcements either as independent units or part of Inf Bdes.

Sources
British Orders of Battle & TO&Es 1980-1989 v3.5 By R Mark Davies for Battlefront: Modern
MODERN BRITISH TOE’S © Richard A. Rinaldi 2002 (www.orbat.com)
British Armoured Battle Group by Tim Matzold, Daniel Nowak

Yazak..I know MR has problems with the Brits..so I'm sure he may consider your changes for an upcoming patch?

Tazak,

I would be the one to update the data files. I'm always interested in getting more information and more correct information for the time period. If you can send me a copy of your spreadsheet I can see about working in #1-#4 into the official data files. That will get the updates into future rebuilds of the scenarios.

As for the other items we did not include OOB info for those items we did not need (like northern set marine forces) or needs additional game mechanics (airmobile). At some point down the road the listing will expand for sure. If you have good OOB and TOE sources for these formations I'm always looking to add source information on the subject.

Thanks!

Capn Darwin

The attached zip file in the original post contains British-USER-B1 with the 4 changes.

My primary source for 'paper' TOE is orbat.com coupled with years of actual experience within a infantry battalion - 3rd Bn Light Infantry who were part of 24th airmobile bde until late 89 when we replaced QLR as a mechanised Bn (upgraded to Armoured Inf Bn in the early 90's) in 33 Armd Bde.
Although I find paper TOE limiting when Bde level assets are often distributed to lower levels in practice such as Blowpipe/Javelin SAM teams likewise internal Bn assets are only listed under their parent plt HQ not SOP although this was subject to change as the tactical situation required.

The 24th airmobile OOB I'm toying with is little more than a standard infantry bn, very few vehicles other than utility landrovers at Bn HQ/Coy HQ and mortar plt, and recce plt with either 'Land Rover OP' or 'Land Rover WMIK' although most likely the latter as they are armed with GPMG's. The Atk plt would be increased to 42 milan launchers again I'd be likely to spread those out to the 3 companies leaving some under the Atk PHQ for Bn commanders deployment/local reserves.

Each infantry plt with have additional 'INF-AG' to represent the 100 LAW80 the Bn would have under orbat.com TOE, this gives them a increase in MAW capability in line with their role.

Having them airlifted into direct combat is something I don't envisage at present given the AD capabilities of WP forces and SOP would be they would be airlifted in advance to blocking positions allowing time to dig in before contact with forward elements - ahhh the days in trenches eating fresh corn-on-the-cob 'acquired' from local fields.

TA units would again be a mix of standard infantry or wheeled infantry units in Saxon's or 4tonne trucks similar to the WG Territorial Infantry Regiments.
Question - is there anyway to lower unit training/moral by default for certain formations or are they all tied into the front sheet data thus requiring manual adjustment during scenario creation?

RM would require some research and conversations with some old buddies as to OOB/SOP deployment formations.

Round and round we go with the British ORBAT.

I think this was a ploy to keep the Russians from understanding just how thin that Red Line really was.

Good Hunting.

MR

Sorry MR not aiming to cause you work, I'm more than happy to research and provide sources/data for the more unusual British OOB/TOE units to provide the community with user data files for use in scenario's (and mine when I get the hang of map creation - PS thanks for the guides on that)

Not to worry. We'll take all the help we can get.

I look forward to some scenarios created by guys that actually have a clue what the British ORBAT is/was.

Good Hunting.

MR

But can somebody please get rid of the FV432+Rarden turrets?

There were only ever 10 of them made and they were used exclusively in Berlin.

I keep seeing whole Battalions of them in the Brit scenarios.

It's doing my head in [;)]

Ta,

B

See, that's what I mean. Proof positive that the British were messing with the rest of us.

Good Hunting.

MR

When specifying the composition of a unit, do you have to use 'code' on the formation tab or the 'SU Type' from the units tab

Or can you use the 'SUTag' from the units tab if you want to lock down to using certain subunits

On the Formations tab a Unit Compositions must abide by the following rules:

1. The entry must contain either a Code from the Formations Tab or a CompID from column "S" of the Units Tab. Both not both. Both will crash the game.

2. Each entry is the ID*"X". Where "X" is any integer 1 to N. You can omit a *1.

3. Entries must be comma delimited. For example: ID1*2, ID2*4, ID3 A trailing comma will crash the game when parsing so double check you work.

4. If you want a specific sub-unit in a formation you can use the SUTag from column "A" of the Units tab. For example: US161*2 would be two Stinger SAM units.

All of this info will be in Modding Guides #2 when I get it done. Both Guides are way overdue, but bug fixing has had the priority on free time. I am actively back on Mod Guides today.

British-USER-B2 version.

change log:
B2:
1. Added ‘Airmobile Infantry Battalion (83+)’
This is dated from when the concept was first trailed but based on the first formal TOE in 1986 up to 1989 when 2 of the infantry Bn changed their 3rd company to an aviation company of 2 Plt and 1 Atk platoon of 8 Milan Launchers as well as overall increase in ATGM up to 42 or 44 Launchers. The 3rd Bn remained a beefed up Light Role Inf Bn at 24 Launchers.
2. Added: quick selection of 3 different Battlegroups
Armoured Battlegroup
Mechanised Battlegroup
Armoured Infantry Battlegroup
Note, the infantry company in the armoured battlegroup does not have organic mortar support at present while I figure out best of presenting it.

coming soon in B3

1. Mechanized Infantry Battalion [wheeled]
This represents a number of regular army units ear-marked to reinforce 1 British Corp in the event of ward. Only BOAR unit received FV432 and later the Warrior, these units used Saxon Wheeled APC as their battletaxi.
2. Infantry Battalion (Light Role/TA)
A number of BOAR units were held to this TOE as were some UK based units in 2 Inf Div and the early 24th airmobile bde units.
The TA Battalion only has 4 Milian launchers (12 v.s. 16) less, so rather than spam minor differences I kept these identical as it’s not hard to see the TA units getting the extra launchers in wartime.
3. Yeomanry Armoured Recce Regiment (TA)
2 UK based units were ear-marked as BOAR reinforcements (1 under 2 Inf Div, the other under Corp command).

And currently trying out a official 1990 TOE for the 24 Airmobile bde units similar to light role but 42 or 44 Milian Launchers under the premise that the uplift in TOE would start ahead of the publish date on the TOE

historical British-USER-B1 file

B1:
1. removed the extra 9 81mm mortar tubes (3 per company support), this brings the total down to 8 per battalion as under standard TOE
2. Added 2x handheld SAMs to Battalion HQ to a) compensate for the lost VP/9 tubes in point 1, b) this was standard practice to allocate these from the bde assets
3. redistributed the Milan sections to 1 per company, leaving 1 section and 2 MCT under ATK Plt, this was standard practice and party to compensate for point 1 above
4. 'renamed' Infantry Bn Recce Plt from SHQ to PHQ (has no effect on comms ranges from what I can tell)

Whats B1, B2 and B3? I'm confused. DO I need all three files or is B3 and upgrade over B2 and B2 over B1?

I've B1, B2 and B3 as the version numbers, you only need to use the latest version to have all the changes

I have a fix in the next release for the Rarden turrets. And a good chance I will absorb some of the other posted fixes for the Brits in the official file and USER file if Tazak is okay with that.

Capn Darwin
Feel free to use all/any of what I put in this post

Tazak, Thanks!

Cheers guys [:)]