Matrix Games Forums

Hi, let me start off by thanking the developers and scenario writers. I am really enjoying the game so far and am very impressed by the level of detail.

I recently played Operation Brass Drum and after playing the scenario had some general game questions.

I noticed that while on a mine sweeping patrol, 2 of my MH-53E Sea Dragon were destroyed. The message window didn't report them being hit and there were no enemy units in the area. I came to the conclusion that they were probably destroyed by mines. I wasn't sure, is this how they destroy mines or am I doing something wrong? I always assumed they would detect the mine and destroy it with a torpedo. Is there any way to detect and avoid or destroy the mines without losing the Sea Dragons in the process?

I was also wondering what the easiest way to disable an airbase is. After some experimentation using the scenario editor I found that disabling the runway access points or destroying the runways works well. I found that destroying the ammo bunkers will stop planes from re-arming but it takes a lot of ammo to do it. Destroying the fuel dumps has no effect on the airbase operations. Destroying the hangars will destroy the planes but seems more work then destroying the runway or runway access points. Are there any other buildings you can destroy to shut down an airbase?

I noticed that dropping unguided bombs from low altitude was far more accurate then high altitude (for obvious reasons). What i was wondering, is there any advantage at all to drop them from high altitude assuming the base is undefended?

I was also wondering if the speed of your plane has any impact on the accuracy / damage of the unguided bombs? When auto throttle is on, the planes AI often drops the unguided bombs at higher speed. When I do it myself I prefer to fly slow so i can maneuver the plane easier.

Some of the bombs / missiles have the word penetrator in the description. I assume that this means it should be more effective versus heavily armored targets. Does anyone have an idea of approximately how much armor a target should have before it becomes more effective? I am never really sure when I would be better off using a regular warhead and when I should use a penetrator.

When using a jamming aircraft, is it more important to be close to the target you are trying to hide from the enemy radar or is it more important to be close to the enemy radar you are trying to jam? Does the altitude of the jammer matter? Should I always be jamming from max altitude, or try to be close to the altitude of the targets I am trying to mask? Also the EA-18G Growler has a normal jamming loadout with 3 ecm pods and a short range jamming loadout with 5 ecm pods. What is the advantage of the short range loadout? For example if you are jamming a radar will the 5 pod layout jam it more effectively from farther range? Or can the 5 pod loadout can jam more radars at the same time?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance to anyone who has any answers to them.

ORIGINAL: GameBoy

I noticed that while on a mine sweeping patrol, 2 of my MH-53E Sea Dragon were destroyed. The message window didn't report them being hit and there were no enemy units in the area. I came to the conclusion that they were probably destroyed by mines. I wasn't sure, is this how they destroy mines or am I doing something wrong? I always assumed they would detect the mine and destroy it with a torpedo. Is there any way to detect and avoid or destroy the mines without losing the Sea Dragons in the process?

I'll defer to others on the rest, but I can tell you something about this one. The MH53 drags a sled behind it while flying along at low altitude and a slow forward speed. However it should be far enough away from any conventional mine explosion to avoid damage. Sounds like something else is going on there.

JD

ORIGINAL: GameBoy
I was also wondering what the easiest way to disable an airbase is. After some experimentation using the scenario editor I found that disabling the runway access points or destroying the runways works well. I found that destroying the ammo bunkers will stop planes from re-arming but it takes a lot of ammo to do it. Destroying the fuel dumps has no effect on the airbase operations. Destroying the hangars will destroy the planes but seems more work then destroying the runway or runway access points. Are there any other buildings you can destroy to shut down an airbase?

Ill reply to this one;

The simple answer is that it varies a lot. Depending on the airfield configutation, the runway or the access points may well be the best targets, but if its an open airfield with only tarmac parking instead of hangars/revetments, then a single strike has a chance of getting rid of a significant portion of the aircraft based there.

It is also dependant on what you have available for weapons - some of the high penetration cruise missiles or bombs are ideal for getting rid of ammo bunkers, whereas regular iron bombs or JDAMs are more suited for runway and parking area removal.

My general approach is to assess airfields based on 3 criteria;
1. Number of access points vs number of runways/taxiways
2. Type of aircraft parking - open vs protected (hangar) vs hardened (HAS or underground)
3. Concentration of ammo storage

The first often lets you filter out those airfields that are fairly easy to shut down - if for example there is 1 runway with 3 access points, the access points are the obvious and easier targets, and will completely neutralize the airfield. Largest airfields become progressively harder to do this to, as they can have 4-8 access points per runway, as well as several runways/runway-capable taxiways. In these cases, it may be more sensible to strike the runways instead, or look at other ways to disable the base.

The second criteria is important because it lets you approach neutralizing the airfield from a different direction, by getting rid of the actual airwing. A lot of large civilian airports have many access points and runways, but typically very unprotected parking spaces, so if faced with this kind of facility, then the logical target is the aircraft themselves, often arranged in fairly dense parking areas, and vulnerable to strikes. Military bases will often have revetments or hangars which will limit damage (particularly blast damage to the surroundings), and so it will be harder to eliminate the aircraft, though in some cases only fighters will be protected by hangars, with larger aircraft like AWACS/Tankers/etc. left in the open. The worst targets are those with underground aircraft storage, as these take either specialized munitions or a lot of bombardment to crack open.

Lastly, looking at how ammo is stored can provide a third approach to neutralizing a base. Most bases will have several ammo depots/bunkers, but some will only have one, and if this is only a surface depot then it presents a clear vulnerability. Even a single ammo bunker may be the easiest target in a hardened base, especially if you have the correct weapons. This last one is also of course dependent on if you are using the 'unlimited weapons at bases' realism option.

Airfields are quite vulnerable to nuclear strike. [:D]

and Baloogan's favorite movie is Dr Strangelove [:D][:D]

Hello, and welcome!

ORIGINAL: GameBoy
I noticed that while on a mine sweeping patrol, 2 of my MH-53E Sea Dragon were destroyed. The message window didn't report them being hit and there were no enemy units in the area. I came to the conclusion that they were probably destroyed by mines. I wasn't sure, is this how they destroy mines or am I doing something wrong? I always assumed they would detect the mine and destroy it with a torpedo. Is there any way to detect and avoid or destroy the mines without losing the Sea Dragons in the process?

They're not meant to be kamikazes [:)]. What is probably happening is that some of the mines being swept are detonating on the surface, and our proximity blast code is a bit overzealous when it comes to nearby helicopters. We'll probably have to tone it down a bit. That said, there is indeed a small chance of being hit by blast/fragments.

I was also wondering what the easiest way to disable an airbase is. After some experimentation using the scenario editor I found that disabling the runway access points or destroying the runways works well. I found that destroying the ammo bunkers will stop planes from re-arming but it takes a lot of ammo to do it. Destroying the fuel dumps has no effect on the airbase operations. Destroying the hangars will destroy the planes but seems more work then destroying the runway or runway access points. Are there any other buildings you can destroy to shut down an airbase?

Pretty much what you discovered. Taxiways and open revetments are the most profitable and cost-effective targets. Hardened shelters are fair game only if you have plenty of resources to spare and can afford to make repeated passes without much attrition.

I noticed that dropping unguided bombs from low altitude was far more accurate then high altitude (for obvious reasons). What i was wondering, is there any advantage at all to drop them from high altitude assuming the base is undefended?

Fuel economy only.

I was also wondering if the speed of your plane has any impact on the accuracy / damage of the unguided bombs? When auto throttle is on, the planes AI often drops the unguided bombs at higher speed. When I do it myself I prefer to fly slow so i can maneuver the plane easier.

No, there are factors but speed is not one of them.

Some of the bombs / missiles have the word penetrator in the description. I assume that this means it should be more effective versus heavily armored targets. Does anyone have an idea of approximately how much armor a target should have before it becomes more effective? I am never really sure when I would be better off using a regular warhead and when I should use a penetrator.

That's one of the "it depends" things. Experiment and you can get a decent "feel" of when a penetrator is necessary (there's a lot of science underneath but there is also a certain variability).

When using a jamming aircraft, is it more important to be close to the target you are trying to hide from the enemy radar or is it more important to be close to the enemy radar you are trying to jam? Does the altitude of the jammer matter? Should I always be jamming from max altitude, or try to be close to the altitude of the targets I am trying to mask?

Ideally you want the jammer to be right on top of the enemy emitter, on the same bearing as the protected asset, and on the same angular altitude.

Also the EA-18G Growler has a normal jamming loadout with 3 ecm pods and a short range jamming loadout with 5 ecm pods. What is the advantage of the short range loadout? For example if you are jamming a radar will the 5 pod layout jam it more effectively from farther range? Or can the 5 pod loadout can jam more radars at the same time?

Each jammer pod is treated as a distinct jamming source in the ECM model, and their effect is cumulative (though not linear). So yes, 5 pods will allow you to jam a threat more powerfully than 3. Currently we do not model the limitation of jamming only X threats concurrently. (everyone is jamming everything within range & LOS)

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance to anyone who has any answers to them.

You're welcome! We hope you have as much fun with this great game as we already are.

ORIGINAL: GameBoy
I noticed that dropping unguided bombs from low altitude was far more accurate then high altitude (for obvious reasons). What i was wondering, is there any advantage at all to drop them from high altitude assuming the base is undefended?

I was also wondering if the speed of your plane has any impact on the accuracy / damage of the unguided bombs? When auto throttle is on, the planes AI often drops the unguided bombs at higher speed. When I do it myself I prefer to fly slow so i can maneuver the plane easier.

I will also add to what Sunburn said regarding the above - one of the main considerations when planning strike profiles should be the AA threat. High speed means less time over the target area, and high altitude means you stay out of the reach a variety of weapons, from AA guns like the ZSU-23 or M163, short ranged missiles like the SA-9 or man portable ones like the SA-7 (essentially anything falling into the SHORAD category).

Recon of the target before a strike along with several other factors (time/weapons available, target value, etc.) will let you assess the situation and decide how much risk you are willing to commit to.

Recon of the target before a strike along with several other factors (time/weapons available, target value, etc.) will let you assess the situation and decide how much risk you are willing to commit to.

This is something I've never thought about, I've never tried it out. Let's say its 1975 and I fly an RF-4C over a target, or It's 1961 an I fly a U-2 over some place - do I instantly know everything as the player or does the plane have to RTB, have the film developed and analyzed, then fixed targets appear?

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel

Recon of the target before a strike along with several other factors (time/weapons available, target value, etc.) will let you assess the situation and decide how much risk you are willing to commit to.

This is something I've never thought about, I've never tried it out. Let's say its 1975 and I fly an RF-4C over a target, or It's 1961 an I fly a U-2 over some place - do I instantly know everything as the player or does the plane have to RTB, have the film developed and analyzed, then fixed targets appear?

Currently we don't model delayed info transmission so all new intel is disseminated immediately. IIRC RF-4s got this ability via a datalink ability in the late-70s/early-80s and Su-24MRs a bit later.

They're not meant to be kamikazes . What is probably happening is that some of the mines being swept are detonating on the surface, and our proximity blast code is a bit overzealous when it comes to nearby helicopters. We'll probably have to tone it down a bit. That said, there is indeed a small chance of being hit by blast/fragments.

+1 Pls have a look at the damage mine clearing vehicles (both heli and mine-hunting ships) take while performing their task.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3444281&mpage=1&key=&#3450944 , post #6 onwards

Thank you!