Matrix Games Forums

Hi all,

In one other thread (where I asked about Japanese barges) interesting info
emerged:

showthread.php?s=&threadid=27230

In other words the number I though that is tonnage, apparently,
is something else.


So... I ask now whether all cargo capacities for all cargo/troop carrying
ships is some abstract number and not tonnage (as I and many others,
apparently, thought)?

Any ideas gentleman?


Leo "Apollo11"

I don't know, but I would agree that it's an abstract value

I think its the "number of warm bodies we can cram aboard" value.
Unfortunately if so, then this is a poor measure of cargo capacity.
While 1500 may be about right for the number of warm bodies able to be placed on a small AP, it is unfortunately nothing like the tonnage capacity of a small AP.
Things get even worse with the Medium AK, while 2000 seems about right for the personell capacity of a Liberty ship used as a troop transport, 2000 tonnes is nowhere near what a liberty ship can carry as a maximum cargo load. (IIRC about 12,000 tonnes)
At the opposite extreme, whe have the AG's and LVCP's with a warm body capacity in the range of 70 to 100, which again seem to be correct for personell capacity, but unfortunately these craft carried nowhere near this much cargo tonnage. (usual cargo cap range is 12 to 30 tonnes for these craft.)
In fact I'd say that the only ships in the game that come close to hauling the correct ammount of tonnage are the LCI's, and Transport Submarines.

Hi all,

It would me most useful if someone for Matrix/2By3 can confirm
this...


Leo "Apollo11"

If the rate of cargo carried is related to consumtion rate of this cargo, then I don't see how this makes much difference. I actually think its an arbritory number

Originally posted by DoomedMantis
If the rate of cargo carried is related to consumtion rate of this cargo, then I don't see how this makes much difference. I actually think its an arbritory number

And I agree 110%. The consumption and cargo rates are arbitrary. They appear to work. Where's the problem ?

Angus

my mind is currently completely fogged by medications (bronchitis), but I also remember teaching with a retired merchant captain who told me that tonnage rating on merchant ships (hence any transport type vessel, I would think) is based more on the volume of the ship for the measurement. If I can find the formula for the way they work this out, I will get it to you, but I seem to also recall that it is a relatively complicated little formula.

Gary claims the number is tons. However, the system in UV is abstracted somewhat as men, weapons, and supplies are loaded equally in all kinds of ships. In UV, Gary has already implemented a system by which different kinds of ship classes will load different items with differing efficiency. At the same time, the capacity ratings of all the ships have been rerated to account for this (and a more detailed review of the data on the ships). The number should still be tons, but it will be more accurate in WitP than in UV.

Joel

Will Gary differentiate between AK and AKA and AP and APA vessels. Also will WitP include AR, AD, AS type vessels. Having those ships in port, say in Noumea, could really be interesting, not to mention such things as differentiating between Landing Craft and Landing Ships. You would have to talk with an old Gator Freighter to get the real skinny on how all of those things worked. Seems to me LCVP's were carried on the APA, and LCM were shipped on the sides of AKA's. AP and AK were used between ports usually, but for the assaults, AKA and APA were used.

For merchant vessels, as noted, cargo capacity is more a volume issue than a weight issue.

And a cargo ship can be loaded in a variety of different ways depending on how fast you want to unload it and how it's loaded.

There was a spectrum from maximum efficient cargo loading (breaking EVERYTHING down to its smallest pieces and crating it; this takes the longest to get everything together again at the dock, and usually required a REAL port to do so, typically done sailing from the US to a friendly port)....

To "combat Loading" where stuff was loaded pre-assembled, and items were carefully scattered among transports in the force so that the loss of one transport wouldn't destroy ALL of one type of equipment or supply. This could be quickly unloaded on a beach.

However, combat loading gave you a LOT less capacity per ship.

UV doesn't distinguish between the two, but SEEMS to emphasize "combat loading" capacity...which is why it seems people keep complaining about ships not having enough capacity.

If you're gonna pick one, combat loading is the best choice...the last thing we want is people having to use less transport than was required in reality for an amphib invasion.