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Can someone explain how this works in regards to Defensive or offensive chits on the border etc?

It must be simpler than what I am making it out to be [:)]

Face-up chits are defensive, face down are offensive. (Not to be confused with Offensive Chits that you can build and use to augment your combat powers.)

The chits are added to the garrison values prior to calculating whether a pact can be broken using the 2 to 1 ratio. The chits are not doubled or halved etc. like the garrison values are. Also they cannot more than double the garrison value after it has been modified according to the year of the pact.

Example: It's 1940 and Germany has 20.5 garrison points and 23 face down total in chits. Germany has 41 for its offensive garrison value. Russia has 5.5 worth for its units but they are doubled in the second calendar year of the pact. (In the first calendar year of a pact war is impossible.) So Russia has 11 defensive value in units. If she has 10 or more in face up chits, Germany cannot declare war. If she has 9 or less, she's at risk until she gets more face up units into the common border area.

Nothing says you can't have some chits face up and others face down (other than certain risks you may run doing that). This face up/face down thing is for the boardgame - MWiF has a method to allow you to hide your face down chits so the opponent knows how many you have but not their values.

Edit: In Solitaire you see all the chits. In Hotseat or Netplay they can be hidden.

Both sides have a garrison value. This garrison value is basically one point per unit, with divisions counting half and good units (ARM, MTN, SS, etc) counting double. In addition, one has chits that one draws; these can be offensive (known to your opponent) or defensive (secret). The values of the chints are added to your garrison, but the amount added by chits can not exceed the garrison value.

The tricky thing is the year modifier. In the first year of a pact, the garrison does not matter, because you are not allowed to break a pact the first year (barring an attempt by your opponent to exploit a pact by having his ally attack you from his territory). In the second year (1940, in the case of USSR-Germany) the defensive garrison value of units is doubled; in the third year it is normal, in the fourth year (1942) it is halved. The values of chits is never affected by year.

In any case, to declare war after the first year, your offensive value must be twice than your opponents modified defensive value.

As an example, say one side has 10 garrison points worth of units, eight points of offensive chits, and six of defensive chits. Its offensive garrison value will always be 18 (= 10 + 8). It could declare war on the other side if the other sides garrison value is 9 or lower. In the first year of a pact, its defensive value doesn't matter; the other side can't declare war. In the second year, its defensive value would be 26 (= 2 * 10 + 6). The other side would need an offensive value of 52 to declare war. In the third year, the defensive value would simply be 16 (= 10 + 6); the other side would need a value of 32 to declare war. In the fourth year, the defensive value would be only 10 (= 10/2 + 5), because the chits can not add more garrison points than the units do. The other side would need a garrison value of 20 to declare war.

The Germans get two chits a turn. The Russians get one chit. When a side gets a chit, it may look at it, and then decide whether it is a offensive or defensive chit. Then, after you get new chits, you may move one chit from one pool to the other. If you had more than one pact, you could, instead, move a chit from one border to the other, instead of turn a chit over. (In the board game the chits had numbers on one side, a question mark on the other, and an offensive chit was face up, a defensive one face down; thus "turning one over".)

I hope this post induces no more confusion than you already had.

Small typo there, should be: "these can be defensive (known to your opponent) or offensive (secret)."

All Good thanks for the definition. I was not sure what the offensive or defensive chits were for ie increase garrison values. So in effect Russian could attempt to put their chits in the offensive side thereby they could have the opportunity to DOW Germany should they not maintain enough garrison. Suppose there is some strategy involved whereby Germany in the 2nd year might want to us them as defensive chits so they don't need to maintain a huge garrison with a Russian build up. Then over the winter of 40/41 they might start transferring them to the offensive side.

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

All Good thanks for the definition. I was not sure what the offensive or defensive chits were for ie increase garrison values. So in effect Russian could attempt to put their chits in the offensive side thereby they could have the opportunity to DOW Germany should they not maintain enough garrison. Suppose there is some strategy involved whereby Germany in the 2nd year might want to us them as defensive chits so they don't need to maintain a huge garrison with a Russian build up. Then over the winter of 40/41 they might start transferring them to the offensive side.

ahh but here's the catch - when you draw a marker, you can look at it. then you decide to make it an offensive or defensive marker.

after you place new marker(s), then you can change a marker from offensive to defensive, or vice versa. ONE marker per turn...so the values don't change very fast...

ORIGINAL: brian brian

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

All Good thanks for the definition. I was not sure what the offensive or defensive chits were for ie increase garrison values. So in effect Russian could attempt to put their chits in the offensive side thereby they could have the opportunity to DOW Germany should they not maintain enough garrison. Suppose there is some strategy involved whereby Germany in the 2nd year might want to us them as defensive chits so they don't need to maintain a huge garrison with a Russian build up. Then over the winter of 40/41 they might start transferring them to the offensive side.

ahh but here's the catch - when you draw a marker, you can look at it. then you decide to make it an offensive or defensive marker.

after you place new marker(s), then you can change a marker from offensive to defensive, or vice versa. ONE marker per turn...so the values don't change very fast...

Ok gotcha, so if you wish to go to war with Russia in 1941 than you probably want to concentrate on offensive chits than.

Truly. And if Russia is playing cat and mouse, she needs to start turning her hidden ones up around JA40.

If a sudden bevy of Russian reinforcements and rail moves suddenly appear, Germany has an easier time adapting to discovering their unit garrison count is a bit low. Germany can turn both chits she draws (at turn end) face up, plus turn up (if needed) the single highest chit she has that was face down. This is providing Germany doesn't draw a zero chit. There is never any advantage in turning a zero chit face up.

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

Can someone explain how this works in regards to Defensive or offensive chits on the border etc?

It must be simpler than what I am making it out to be [:)]

warspite1

Majorball68 the explanation at the end of this thread may be of assistance.

tm.asp?m=3469624&mpage=1&#3470114

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

...There is never any advantage in turning a zero chit face up.

except perhaps psychological. Although I cannot think of when it might be reasonable to do it, nor do I ever remember doing it or seeing it done.