Matrix Games Forums

I was just wondering if you were going to keep the wording you have presented in your screen shots of this game.

Being a former member of the 11th ACR, I take a bit of umbrage at what I saw written there.

Examples:

11th Cavalry Group instead of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment

1/1/11th Cavalry Group as a Unit Indentifier instead of A/1/11th ACR.

1/11th Cav Helo Troop instead of Air Cav Troop, 11th ACR

If you need help with unit names and identifiers for the 11th ACR during this time frame feel free to contact me.

-Jim Taylor
(Former Member I Troop, 3/11th ACR
Bad Hersfeld Germany, 1987-1989)

That will be fixed I am certain of it...heheh...right Rob!

Outfront!

Sabre21

Er, yes, I've been corrected already on that before but not by an actual member of the unit! I think I have it right in my current scenario files but it is still hard to be sure.

The screen shots you saw are getting pretty old and were based on 'hasty research' in an effort to get something up on the site on pretty short notice.

The names we are using are as of 1989 of course. How were the helicopter units all named at that time? They were all collected into their own squadron (bn sized) and then parcelled out as needed? I want to drill right down with them. I'd appreciate your help with this!

Cheers, Rob.

Well they may have been squadron sized, but I recall that they were the "Air Troop" and hence would have been company sized. They were known as "Thunderhorse". The squadrons names were as follows:

1/11th - Ironhorse
2/11th - Eaglehorse
3/11th - Workhorse
Air Troop - Thunderhorse
CSS Sqdn. - Packhorse

As for their TO&E I really am not the person to claim knowledge of that. I know they had AH-1 Cobras and OH-58C's up until early 1989 and were starting to transition to the Apache's then. I also know there was at least one airlift platoon that had Blackhawks. Being a tanker, I didn't have much to do with the Thunderhorse.

What I could offer is help with 3rd Sqdn.'s defense plans, as I'm pretty certain that they are no longer secret, seeing as there's no border anymore. Also I still remember who we faced across the grenze, so if you need help with Warsaw Pact unit ID's I can point you in the right direction at least.

I would advise you to contact the Regiment's Public Affairs Officer to get detailed TO&E for this era. He may even be able to fill in all your Blackhorse needs. You can contact him via email at the following address: 11acrpao@irwin.army.mil

Tell him a Blackhorse Trooper sent ya!


ALLONS!

-Jim Taylor

Here is a breakdown of an ACR in 1989.

The aviation portion of an ACR were consolidated into the 4th Squadron of that Regiment. In the case of the 11th, it would be 4-11th ACR.

Regimental troop designation begins with A troop in the 1st squadron and continues alphabetically by each troop regardless of Squadron. The only exception are the HHT's which exist in each Squadron.

The 4th Squadron consisted of 8 Troops (companies).

HHT = Headquarters and Headquarters Troop 3 EH-60's, 3 UH-60s

N Troop = Aircav troop of 6 OH58C's and 4 AH-1F's

O Troop = Aircav troop

P Troop = Aircav troop

Q Troop = Attack troop of 6 AH-64's and 4 OH-58's

R Troop = Attack troop

S Troop = Assault troop of 15 UH-60's

T Troop - Aviation Maintenance troop

Note: The 11th ACR was the only AH-64 equipped ACR in 1989. The 2nd and 3rd still had 7 AH-1F's per Attack Troop in lieu of the 6 AH-64's.

Hope this helps

Sabre21

A couple extra notes...I don't have an exact date when the 11th received Apaches in the attack troops. The Berlin Wall came down in November 1989 and I can't recall if it was before or after this event.

Oh..the CSS was the Combat Support Squadron which had the 58th Engineer Company and an MI Company (can't find the designation for it). I am not sure what other companies were in this Squadron, but I will try and find out. It went active in 1985 in the 11th.

Sabre21

1st through 3rd Squadrons were formed as follows:

HHT (Headquarters and Headquarters Troop).
A,B,C (1st Sqdn.); E,F,G (2nd Sqdn.); I,K,L (3rd Sqdn.)were the Cavalry Troops.

D (1st Sqdn.), H (2nd Sqdn.), M (3rd Sqdn.) were the Armor Companies.

There was no J troop. (No self respecting Cav Trooper would want to be part of a Juliette troop. )

Each Combat Squadron also had an organic Howitzer Battery of M109's. They were known as How Battery. (How original. )

Each Combat Squadron also had an organic Engineer Company from the 58th Combat Engineers.

I can't really say what the Air Troop consisted of, other than what I've already said but it's all conjecture on my part.

I can't tell you exactly what the CSS Squadron consisted of either except that it contained higher level maintenance assets.



A Cavalry Combat Troop in 1989 in the 11th ACR consisted of the following:

HQ Platoon (Command elements were Black callsign on the radio, and the other units were Gold. e.g the First Sergeant was known as Black 7. The CO was Black 6.): 1 M1IP Abrams Tank. 1 M577 TOC Track. 4 M113 APCs. 2 M106 4.2" Mortar Carriers. 4 HMMWV's, 1 M88 Recovery Vehicle. 2 2.5 Ton Trucks. 1 2.5 Ton Maintenance Shop Truck. (I might have the number of M113's and Hummers wrong, but this is what my memory recalls.)

1st Platoon (Red Callsigns): 8 M3 Bradley CFVs.
2nd Platoon (White Callsigns): 4 M1IP Abrams Tanks
3rd Platoon (Blue Callsigns): 8 M3 Bradley CFVs.
4th Platoon (Green Callsigns): 4 M1IP Abrams Tanks

The Armor Companies consited of:

HQ Platoon: 2 M1IP Abrams Tanks, the rest was probably the same as the Cav Troops.
1st Platoon: 4 M1IP Abrams Tanks.
2nd Platoon: 4 M1IP Abrams Tanks.
3rd Platoon: 4 M1IP Abrams Tanks
They did not have a 4th Platoon.

I really don't remember what the Engineer Companies had except they had the M728 CEV's, and the AVLBs, and the MCLC's.

The How Batteries had 2 M577s, 6 M109 SP Howitzers, 6 M548 Ammo Carriers, 1 M88, and some other vehicles like a Cherry Picker (cant remember its designation), and some Gamma Goats (again cant remember their designation). I don't know what kind of organization these vehicles were in though.

HHTs had 2 M3 CFVs with them, and the rest was all M113's, M577s, and Trucks. I couldn't tell you what quantities of these were in them. I heard someone once say that they were supposed to have 2 M3's and 2 M1's in them, but 3rd Squadron only had 2 M3's that I can remember.

Once again, I'd reccomend asking the 11th ACR PAO. The squadron is still active in its new roll as OPFOR at Ft. Irwin, CA.

Cheers!

-Jim Taylor

JTaylor

Glad to see another Cav guy here. I spent around 2 years in ground cav and about 10 years or so in air cav.

Anyways, I thought the bradly platoons only had 6 each...thats how many we had in our platoons...didn't think the 11th would be different.

You also said M1 IP's rather than M1A1's....I thought the 11th had changed over by then. All the units in the 3ID and 3AD had M1A1's. The 1AD and 8ID I knew still had a few of the older M1's, but was sure both Cav ACR's had converted.

Also I had the Howitzer battery with 8 guns each. The TO&E was changed around 84-85 from 6 to 8 guns. I know it took a while for that to get around, but don't know any unit other than light units that kept a 6 gun battery by 88-89.

You mentioned 58th Engineer Battalion...the 11th ACR site shows it as a company. A battalion would make better sense considering the size of an ACR and maybe it's a misprint.

I show a breakdown of the aviation squadron above your post with 8 troops.

I guess of everything you mentioned what surprised me was you mentioned gamma goats. I have not seen one of the them since 83-84, didn't realize anyone still had them.

Sabre21

Yeah now that you mention it, 6 M3s does sound better per Cav Platoon.

As for How Battery, I really don't know if it was 6 or 8 as I just remember they had the crappy motor pool still while we got the new covered sheds.

I know we were slow to change over a lot of the time too so we may have had the 6 gun battery still like I'm remembering.
We had just gotten Hummers in late '87 or early '88, and nomex suits for us tankers in late '88. We also were just beginning to transition to the M1A1's in March of '89 when I left to go to the 1st ID, and landed back in M1IPs.

As for the 58th Combat Engineers, I KNOW we had a full size company in the Squadron, cause they were the biggest formation when we had Squadron ceromonies. That would seem to indicate that they were a battalion size element split up over the whole of the Regiment.

I also seem to remember an air defense platoon attached to someone, probably HHT. They had Vulcans. I read somewhere that we were supposed to have stinger guys too, but I never met anyone who was one, nor did I ever see any of them, so who knows.

Too bad you left in '84, you missed the "Great Unannounced Noon Alert" of 1988. V Corps commander decided to "test" us, too bad he didn't realize that the Cav is spring loaded. He ended up retiring very shortly thereafter. We did a goodbye CALFEX for him at Graf to show him what we could have done. Scary at the time, but very funny now.

Were you in the 11th or one of the "Lesser" ACRs? ;P

It is nice to see another spur wearer though.

-Jim

Oh, Gawd, get me away from these blustering Cav pukes!

Jim

I spent my Cav years in divisional Cav, 3 years in a pure air cav with the 101st, then in heavy Cav at Ft Polk (5thID), Germany (3ID - twice), Korea (2ID - 18 months)...then in the 82nd as a recon grunt in my enlisted days.

I knew the 2nd ACR had M1A1's by 89...at least hearing you guys switched over in 89 makes me feel better...matches with the data I had.

When I saw 58th Engineer company on the web site...it just didn't make sense...having a company labeled with only a number is too unique although not impossible. I would agree that it had to be an entire battalion. Plus I would agree that you guys probably had an ada platoon of vulcans and another of stingers...you probably even had a smoke generator platoon of M113's somewhere in there. We had those in Korea in 92.

My last tour to Germany was 88-90 in the 3/4 Cav with the 3ID, we did part of the 2nd ACR's border when they went to gunnery.

Oh Jim..just remember, once a Cav Trooper...always a Cav Trooper:)

Byron..do you know why Cavalry isn't a branch? Because it's a religion:)...hehehe

Sabre21

Exactly. And, like so many religious zealots, you Cav types are misguided. Come to think about it, most of the Cav guys I know do look like Tammy Baker . . . . :p

Originally posted by byron13
Exactly. And, like so many religious zealots, you Cav types are misguided. Come to think about it, most of the Cav guys I know do look like Tammy Baker . . . . :p

Who is Tammy Baker

Pretty funny Byron...what's even funnier was Jo's question who is Tammy...I had a good laugh on that.


Sabre21

The thing that really amazes me, is all the jealousy I always see directed towards Cavalry Troopers. It's like all the other people want to be one of us, and when they realize they can't be Cav, they want to slam us.

Byron could have just let us have our own little conversation and ignored us, but then he had to pipe in with his attack of jealousy. What he's really saying is: "Gee, it sure would be swell to be a Cavalry Trooper like those two are! Too bad due to my (choose one) [lack of education; poor hygiene; lack of friends; chronic halitosis; bad credit; misguided ways; loose moral fibre; ignorance] I can't be one. So I, in my fit of jealous rage will try to make them feel as bad as I do!"

Well Byron, I'm sorry you couldn't be one of us, but if it helps, you could go down to your local toy store, buy some cap pistols and a Hobbie Horse and run around your yard yelling "Charge!"

BTW, take this message with a big fat dose of .

-Jim

(Yeah Cav pukes always stick together like this. We have a little something called Esprit de Corps. )

Gee Jim

"....due to my (choose one) [lack of education; poor hygiene; lack of friends; chronic halitosis; bad credit; misguided ways; loose moral fibre; ignorance]..."


This describes almost every Cav unit I've been in...you're giving away all our secrets:D


Sabre21

Originally posted by Sabre21
Pretty funny Byron...what's even funnier was Jo's question who is Tammy...I had a good laugh on that.


Sabre21

Why a good laugh?

Hmmm. Let's see. Where to begin?

First, let me ask Sabre how one posts pictures. I have a great picture that I'm sure he, especially, will enjoy. I can have it scanned - but then what?

Jo, it's kind of hard to describe Tammy Baker. She and her husband, Jim, were television evangelists. They were on television every Sunday preaching the gospel - kind of like the Cav - and asking for money. She was was horridly ugly and wore a pound of makeup; he was a goofy little guy that looked plastic. They made a ton of money, admitted to drug and alcohol abuse and adultery, and he went to jail for something - probably some kind of fraud related to the money they raised. She started her own television program in Orlando, Florida, whilst Jimmy wasted in jail. Seems like she started making money and divorced him while he was still in jail. Anyway, they were a couple that gave religion a real bad name, and they were the butt of many jokes. Kind of like the Cav.

Jealous? Nay. My response is merely typical of someone who is tired of another that constantly clucks about something that ain't worth a cluck. My response would be the same to someone who lived in a place like . . . like . . . . well, let's say Kansas, who constantly talks ad nauseum about how great Kansas is. I'm sure all people in Kansas stick together and believe Kansas is a great place to live. But it's just a place. Many people would rather not live in Kansas, have made a conscious choice NOT to live there, and would certainly grow weary of two Kansans yapping about how great it is.

I like the Cav and am glad they're there. The sound of their tanks blowing up helps the real muscle find and fix the enemy so they can be destroyed. Somebody's got to do it and, like any intelligent army, ours assigns the KP washouts to the Cav so that, when they are creamed in the first six minutes of the war, nothing of importance will have been lost and the best and brightest remain to win the war. I guess it's a form of natural selection: having the Cav ensures that the weakest gene pool is eliminated leaving the best genes to propogate. In my experience, the Cav genes are unlikely to propogate anyway, since they generally try and procreate with sheep. The U.S. Army tries to keep them in the field as much as possible because they're such an embarassment when they're in town. We give them spurs to play with (despite the high cost of treating self-inflicted spur injuries) and allocate them crosssed sabres, which is really a poorly disguised "X" to mark them as rejects - not that they've ever figured that out. But every country has this lower form of life. In the Middle East, they're generally found in prison or begging; in more civilized countries, they're generally in some kind of social institution where nurses try and teach them not to drool. America, not favoring socially subsidized dithering like this, has once again made the most efficient use of its resources, exiles these outcasts to foreign lands so that they are someone else's bother, and uses them as inexpensive cannon fodder. If you remember the Cuban Boat Lift of 1980 when Castro sent his criminals to America, you'll understand what I mean - it's the same concept.

The old rivalries never die, do they?

Originally posted by jtaylor68
Well Byron, I'm sorry you couldn't be one of us, but if it helps, you could go down to your local toy store, buy some cap pistols and a Hobbie Horse and run around your yard yelling "Charge!"

Thanks for mentioning this. It's because all that seemed a little silly that I did not want to go to the Cav course.





Gee, Byron, that was a pretty good riposte if I do say so myself!

Touché Byron! Nice riposte indeed! I didn't realize that anyone with intelligence and skill in the wit department was left in the lesser Army. I thought we had snatched them all up for our Squadrons!

But all is lost my good man, you see the more you talk to us Cav troopers, and our words get in your ears, the more you desire to be one of us!

Oh, it starts innocently enough, one day you wake up to find you've purchased a decal of crossed sabres and put them on your car. Then before you know it you find yourself strangely attracted to bugle calls, and start to say things like, "the trace" and "mount up" and "forward ho" and "Old Bill". Then one day your wife starts to complain about the spur marks you're leaving in her linoleum, and will you please go clean out you horse's stable. Very soon after that the Stetson appears, and you start making plans to relocate to Ft. Riley, the home of the Cavalry.

Its already too late Byron, the contact you've had with Sabre and I is already beginning its work. You might defend yourself against us two for a time, but we're kind of like the zombies in "Day of the Dead". You can get a few of us, but more and more keep coming. Join us Byron......Join the Cav........Don't fight it.......Cav.......Cav.......Cav........Cav........Cav.




Here's a true story from an alternate reality for ya Byron.

One day WW3 breaks out in the Fulda Gap. As the first Soviet Recon elements cross the trace, (border for you non Cav types), they see standing on a hill top a lone Cav Trooper decked out in Indian War blues. He's up there laughing at the Sov's. Waving his hat in the air and whooping and hollering that they don't have the nuts to come get him.

So the Soviet recon commander orders his unit to attack the hill and kill the Trooper. They rush up the hill, and a giant dust cloud obscures the fight. When the dust cloud clears the Soviet MRR Commander sees his recon team totaly destroyed. The Cav Trooper is still there , leaning on the pile of destroyed vehicles and bodies, laughing at him. The enraged MRR Commander orders his men to attack and kill the insolent bastard.

Another dust cloud obscures the fight and after a bit the dust settles. The pile of bodies and wreckage has grown considerably and there sits the Cav Trooper. He hasn't even broken a sweat and he's now laughing at the Soviet Division Commander who watched his Regiment attack. He immediately orders a full assault complete with all the indirect fires and air support he can call in. The division lurches up the hill into the cloud of dust kicked up by the prepatory bombardment. Sounds of many guns and explosions can be heard, and when the dust finally settles. There sits the Cav Trooper on an enormous heap of destroyed Soviet weaponry and bodies. As the Cav Trooper sits and takes his first sip of water, the Soviet Army Commander looking on through his binocluars sees one of his men clawing and crawling his back to their line of departure.

Finally the mortally wounded soldier reaches his commander. The Army Commander bends down and asks his soldier what technological wonder the Capitalists have on that hill. Was it lasers? Was it Nuclear Weapons? Was it some Alien Hardware from Area 51? The soldier replies. "No......Comrade General.....it was none of that.........it was........a.........dirty.........filthy.........Capitalist trick.......My Comrage General!"

The General looks at him and screams, "What was it Soldier!? What is there that can defeat us with such ease!?"

The soldier replies, "Comrade General..........there are two of them there!"



Cheers!

-Jim (Not actually from Kansas, just lives here) :p