Matrix Games Forums

Had a recently colonized world. A Star Base in orbit, 4 ships in system, 3 Garrisoned Infantry on the ground, the attacking ship was driven off, and still the Raiders escaped with Countermeasures tech?!?

Yeah I have had this happen too. The only solution I have found is to kill their bases.

Yes, the way pirate raids work, based on my experience, and comments by other players is -> All the pirates need to do to 'succeed' in their raid is drop land one troop. They do this and their raid succeeds. It doesn't matter that your troops kill all the invaders, it doesn't matter that your ships kill all the pirate ships. All that matters is that at least one pirate invading troop lands and survives for at least a second. Frustrating, but its the way the engine works right now...

Could what you're seeing be explained by the pirates raiding the starbase rather than the planet? I've had several planets do sod all about the pirate ships but manage to fend off the raids because their garrisons defeated the pirates.

Nope, it was definitely on the planet. The invading troops showed up in the Ground Combat window, and the bases shields were untouched.

Sounds weird. Because colonies in my current game are definitely resisting pirate raids and I'm not seeing immediately successful raids on planets unless the planet is completely empty of defenders. Of course, this is a continuation of a v11 game under v13, so that *might* cause something to be different. I'll try to start a new game and see what happens when pirates throw troops onto planets at some point later today.

Pirate raids succeed if their troops aren't wiped out within a certain amount of time so maybe the defenders are just not strong enough to kill a raider fast enough?

Version 1.9.0.10 - August 9th, 2013
- when pirate raiders withdraw from raiding a colony, they now never obtain any
loot if they do not have any nearby ships

the attacking ship was driven off

But not destroyed.

Still, driven off or destroyed, it shouldn't be considered 'close by'. [:)]

ps: Colonized an independent colony that soon had 4 pirate empires fighting over it. Continuous stream of pirate raiders hitting the ground. When my anti-pirate fleet arrived its 12 ships were easily outnumbered by the swarming pirates. At one point I saw the attacking boarding pods had over 200K strength on the ground.

@ cyclopsSlayer sounds epic! did you record it? be fun to watch..

With that level of Pirate action you need to start destroying nearby Pirate bases earlier. Even then, for early invasions, you need more than 3 defensive troops.

With 4 elite infantry and 2 armored units, pirate raids rarely succeed and most rebellions get put down as well.

I usually need a heavily armed spaceport and 2 defensive bases along with a 4 frigate defensive fleet to stop persistent pirates.

Best defense though is a good offense. Find the pirate bases and destroy them.

ORIGINAL: Icemania

With that level of Pirate action you need to start destroying nearby Pirate bases earlier. Even then, for early invasions, you need more than 3 defensive troops.

Yeah well, my own fault, I had grown too fast and my economy was buckling under the Troop maintenance. Simultaneous conquests of 10 close to each other Independents had me over stretched trying to defend them all, and the clustering was why the pirates were so prevalent in their locale. Was using a 'Variable Clusters' map and they were my first incursion into a new cluster.

I was having an issue with overall economy also but my current game I set my tax rate to zero and let my homeworld get to max population. The difference in terms of economy and research is pretty huge for 3 billion versus 15 billion.

ORIGINAL: Deathball

Pirate raids succeed if their troops aren't wiped out within a certain amount of time so maybe the defenders are just not strong enough to kill a raider fast enough?

It's by design. They can succeed regardless of defences or success in battle. The 1.9.10 requirement that they have a ship close by to gain "loot" does not seem to apply to technology. So they can't make off with the planet's stockpiles - but they'll always be able to pilfer your (and some you don't actually have) technology.

Edit:
The whole tech theft raiding mechanic needs reworking. Currently, any raid on any colony can steal any technology. Why a brand new colony with zero development has access to the latest and greatest military technology is illogical to me. Raiders should have to hit fairly developed colonies in order to steal the latest Kill-O-Zap gun technology; not some backwater colony where the colonists are just climbing out of the colony pod.

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

ORIGINAL: Deathball

Pirate raids succeed if their troops aren't wiped out within a certain amount of time so maybe the defenders are just not strong enough to kill a raider fast enough?

It's by design. They can succeed regardless of defences or success in battle. The 1.9.10 requirement that they have a ship close by to gain "loot" does not seem to apply to technology. So they can't make off with the planet's stockpiles - but they'll always be able to pilfer your (and some you don't actually have) technology.

I don't see how that is any different from what I said. They don't need to wipe out all the defenders to win a "normal" victory like a regular invasion force, just survive long enough for the raid to succeed.

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

Yeah well, my own fault, I had grown too fast and my economy was buckling under the Troop maintenance. Simultaneous conquests of 10 close to each other Independents had me over stretched trying to defend them all, [...]

Whaddayamean 'overstretched'?

You are overstretched when you cannot hold it, not when some dirty pirates get away with scraps.

When you see a raid coming that you likely cannot defend against, there is still the option to pay them off. You have to do it before their troops land and should cancel the treaty after they leave. Whether this is a good option is another question. As long as your ground troops survive, it only makes them stronger. And what the pirates stole won't do them any good when you wipe them out.

ORIGINAL: Deathball
I don't see how that is any different from what I said. They don't need to wipe out all the defenders to win a "normal" victory like a regular invasion force, just survive long enough for the raid to succeed.

I haven't seen any indication that they need to survive "long enough" - I've had pirates raid a planet I've dropped more troops than there is room on the planet for (maybe not - but dozens of infantry, armour and sp ops, at least) - whilst the raiding ships get blasted to pieces by the fleet in orbit - and they STILL get away with tech.

My guess is that the tech raiding success is increased by their survival - but wiping them out in the blink of an eye doesn't guarantee that they won't. It's like some nutjob terrorist group raiding USA's Okinawa base, getting turned to red mist on the wire - and then finding out they stole the plans for the latest super-computer. Make sense? Not to me.

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

I haven't seen any indication that they need to survive "long enough" - I've had pirates raid a planet I've dropped more troops than there is room on the planet for (maybe not - but dozens of infantry, armour and sp ops, at least) - whilst the raiding ships get blasted to pieces by the fleet in orbit - and they STILL get away with tech.

My guess is that the tech raiding success is increased by their survival - but wiping them out in the blink of an eye doesn't guarantee that they won't. It's like some nutjob terrorist group raiding USA's Okinawa base, getting turned to red mist on the wire - and then finding out they stole the plans for the latest super-computer. Make sense? Not to me.

Must be something specific to your game then because I never experienced anything of the sort. I keep only a minimal garrison on my planets and raiders never get away with anything unless the planet doesn't have enough troops or they attack with a very large force but even then the battle takes quite some time. I've seen no difference between raids that steal tech or resources/credits either.

Could the difference of pirate raid challenge be related to any of the difficulty settings? That might explain why we're not quite seeing the same picture.