Matrix Games Forums

Hey guys.

Recently through two very separate origins I have received info that somebody is offering to resell the game (without books) at a very cheap price (I think like 35 euros).

Of course it can be perfectly legal, if he gets tired of waiting for netplay or he is done with the game or his expectatives were not satisfied but...

This game is, as of now, only really usable (for very many of us) as a Netplay game, while we wait for the Ai edition. Solitaire is ok for practice and hotseat means moving to some guy's place and humping in and out of the chair like 300 in an hour (not kidding).

So, the game is for NetPlay now, and although NP is not working now, it is supposed to work somewhen in the future, so it's crucial to determine how to cede the rights in Matrix/slitherin.

It seems the offerer(s) volunteers to leave you the game, the user and password at Slitherin, and then you can change the password and email, and keep the user so you can NP.

To me it smells as a scam. What happens if this guy then recovers his password writes an email to Slitherin complaining that he has been pirated his email and he wants his account back?

Of course I guess this guy could only do so a number of times in case Slitherin has a minimum control on this...

Any input, other experiences, somebody bought or was offered and can correct what I am explaining? What is the Matrix position?

I've gifted many Matrix Games over the years.

As recently as last year I gave away Distant Worlds with all expansions and Command Ops and the expansions as well as some other enticing games...I simply did not have the time nor the inclination to play them so passed them on in the hope someone would be able to.

When I had done so, I kept the games and keys for a week to make sure everything was ok, then removed them. The games are actually registered to me in the Members Area, but the new owners are well aware of this.

I'd hate to think peoples suspicions would cast doubt on the integrity of some people in this gaming community before there's any proof to the contrary - so I think it's a bit "early" to suggest it smells of a scam. They could be genuinely fed up with their purchase and want to move on.

You could of course be right - but innocent until proven guilty, eh?

Oh - and it does seem a bit weird to suggest "...game is, as of now, only really usable (for very many of us) as a Netplay game..." when Netplay isn't working. I thought the game at present was only really playable in solitaire?

If that's wrong, I apologise, but I thought Netplay had enough issues to consider it non-playable.

I was considering this option and the got this reply from the Help Desk:

###############

[ 16 DEC 2013 08:39 by VPaulus ]
Hi Philipp,

I'm afraid that's not possible, as our system doesn't allow to transfer serial numbers from one account to another once the serial number is registered.

Kind Regards,

Paulo Costa
The Slitherine Group

[ 14 DEC 2013 14:30 by Dabrion ]
Hey Pablo!

I would like to have $litherine$ opinion on second hand trade. Can I sell my game to a third party or are there any objections? Would a potential third party be able to change registration details for the serial number, etc.?!



Thanks for your valued help!

Philipp

###############

I purchased the game on the Matrix Games website and it was automatically registered for my account. From this response I took it, that there is more of a technical incompetence than a principle problem.

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I've gifted many Matrix Games over the years.

As recently as last year I gave away Distant Worlds with all expansions and Command Ops and the expansions as well as some other enticing games...I simply did not have the time nor the inclination to play them so passed them on in the hope someone would be able to.

When I had done so, I kept the games and keys for a week to make sure everything was ok, then removed them. The games are actually registered to me in the Members Area, but the new owners are well aware of this.

I'd hate to think peoples suspicions would cast doubt on the integrity of some people in this gaming community before there's any proof to the contrary - so I think it's a bit "early" to suggest it smells of a scam. They could be genuinely fed up with their purchase and want to move on.

You could of course be right - but innocent until proven guilty, eh?

You cannot be so naïve. Must be joking. Else, I have some jewels at home to sell...

Just joking about the jewels. For me and my friends these guys are totally unknown people. I don't think you'd buy a radio for your car to an unknown person in the street withouth the bill to proof the radio is his... Well, this is much more expensive than a radio.

People need to be considered innocent until proven opposite in trials. No in the rest of life, where everybody can be preventive or naive depending on his own experiences and his own way.

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Oh - and it does seem a bit weird to suggest "...game is, as of now, only really usable (for very many of us) as a Netplay game..." when Netplay isn't working. I thought the game at present was only really playable in solitaire?

If that's wrong, I apologise, but I thought Netplay had enough issues to consider it non-playable.

I try to mean that, in my opinion, the game is not useful unless it's in NetPlay, and that NetPlay is supposed to be fixed "soon", so it's the most relevant feature of this gama for a buyer. IMO:

This game is, as of now, only really usable (for very many of us) as a Netplay game, while we wait for the Ai edition. Solitaire is ok for practice and hotseat means moving to some guy's place and humping in and out of the chair like 300 in an hour (not kidding).

So, the game is for NetPlay now, and although NP is not working now, it is supposed to work somewhen in the future, so it's crucial to determine how to cede the rights in Matrix/slitherin.

That's why it's so crucial to have the right to access Slitherin. Because if not, the games is almost unuseful. IMO again.

Thanks Dabrion, I guessed so, although there is still the possibility to cede the user and password and change the email, if the seller is honest.

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was considering this option and the got this reply from the Help Desk:

###############

[ 16 DEC 2013 08:39 by VPaulus ]
Hi Philipp,

I'm afraid that's not possible, as our system doesn't allow to transfer serial numbers from one account to another once the serial number is registered.

Kind Regards,

Paulo Costa
The Slitherine Group

[ 14 DEC 2013 14:30 by Dabrion ]
Hey Pablo!

I would like to have $litherine$ opinion on second hand trade. Can I sell my game to a third party or are there any objections? Would a potential third party be able to change registration details for the serial number, etc.?!



Thanks for your valued help!

Philipp

###############

I purchased the game on the Matrix Games website and it was automatically registered for my account. From this response I took it, that there is more of a technical incompetence than a principle problem.

They have never been able to transfer registration of games from one account to another once registered.

A simple way to do so is to NOT register the game (not be logged in) when buying the game. That way it is not automatically registered to yourself.

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I've gifted many Matrix Games over the years.

As recently as last year I gave away Distant Worlds with all expansions and Command Ops and the expansions as well as some other enticing games...I simply did not have the time nor the inclination to play them so passed them on in the hope someone would be able to.

When I had done so, I kept the games and keys for a week to make sure everything was ok, then removed them. The games are actually registered to me in the Members Area, but the new owners are well aware of this.

I'd hate to think peoples suspicions would cast doubt on the integrity of some people in this gaming community before there's any proof to the contrary - so I think it's a bit "early" to suggest it smells of a scam. They could be genuinely fed up with their purchase and want to move on.

You could of course be right - but innocent until proven guilty, eh?

You cannot be so naïve. Must be joking. Else, I have some jewels at home to sell...

Just joking about the jewels. For me and my friends these guys are totally unknown people. I don't think you'd buy a radio for your car to an unknown person in the street withouth the bill to proof the radio is his... Well, this is much more expensive than a radio.

People need to be considered innocent until proven opposite in trials. No in the rest of life, where everybody can be preventive or naive depending on his own experiences and his own way.

I'm not being naive (love how cars (or mentions thereof) always crop up in comparisons when discussing gaming). [;)]

I'm not being naive. I'm an honest bloke - and I take people at "face" value...I don't think the worst of someone or a situation until that becomes clear. Obviously, at times, common sense may need to prevail

But I fully support people's endeavours to either offload a game for cash in order to recoup some loss on a bought product or for free as a gift.

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Oh - and it does seem a bit weird to suggest "...game is, as of now, only really usable (for very many of us) as a Netplay game..." when Netplay isn't working. I thought the game at present was only really playable in solitaire?

If that's wrong, I apologise, but I thought Netplay had enough issues to consider it non-playable.

I try to mean that, in my opinion, the game is not useful unless it's in NetPlay, and that NetPlay is supposed to be fixed "soon", so it's the most relevant feature of this gama for a buyer. IMO:

This game is, as of now, only really usable (for very many of us) as a Netplay game, while we wait for the Ai edition. Solitaire is ok for practice and hotseat means moving to some guy's place and humping in and out of the chair like 300 in an hour (not kidding).

So, the game is for NetPlay now, and although NP is not working now, it is supposed to work somewhen in the future, so it's crucial to determine how to cede the rights in Matrix/slitherin.

That's why it's so crucial to have the right to access Slitherin. Because if not, the games is almost unuseful. IMO again.

With all due respect to you, Matrix and Steve - it was hoped Netplay (on release) was to be fixed within a week...the exact quote being

...and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them

I concede it will be the main way to play after solitaire (at least until PBEM is released (if it is)), but it's not there yet.

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

hotseat means moving to some guy's place and humping in and out of the chair like 300 in an hour (not kidding).

chairs with wheels….for US Entry phases…..and big wall-mounted flat screens

Actually, I've found a rather elegant solution to this. I had a friend to hot seat MWIF, and hooked up a large monitor to my laptop. During his turns, I'd watch on the laptop's screen, while he played using the large monitor. Eventually, I just hooked in a second mouse, and played my turns on the laptop, across the table form my opponent, both of us in comfortable chairs, and "immobile" for many hours![8D]

ORIGINAL: Freychris

Actually, I've found a rather elegant solution to this. I had a friend to hot seat MWIF, and hooked up a large monitor to my laptop. During his turns, I'd watch on the laptop's screen, while he played using the large monitor. Eventually, I just hooked in a second mouse, and played my turns on the laptop, across the table form my opponent, both of us in comfortable chairs, and "immobile" for many hours![8D]

smart thinking [:)]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Thanks Dabrion, I guessed so, although there is still the possibility to cede the user and password and change the email, if the seller is honest.

You don't really want to be in that position (having to trust someone you do not know). What you could do is:
* involve a trusted third party and place the payment (or goods) on escrow
* do any adjustments necessary to the account and goods
* then if buying and selling party report back to the broker in agreement, have him party release the payment to the seller and
* in other cases return payment and goods to respective owners
* there usually is a fee involved (percentage of buy price)

This conduct would at least eliminate the possibility of scams. My personal issue is that registrations and serials cannot be changed. I don't want to be the guy that sell the game out to piratebay.. And there is no way of making sure that is not going to happen. And guess whose serial will be found there..

you can also try to use remote control function to play hot seat game.[:D]

ORIGINAL: jiangzhouzi

you can also try to use remote control function to play hot seat game.[:D]

Yep - and via Dropbox I learned. Albeit that physical company in this case, without having to set up the game on a table, is also quite nice.

What kind of tool for the remote control function do you use?

Assuming he got the game with the books... why would anyone want to sell the game without the books? Hum...

Yeah, if that was the case, you could think that he wants to keep on playing.

3 reasons immediately spring to mind

1. The books are such a work of art (as everyone has pointed out) and a great read that he would like to keep them...perhaps with a view to buying the game when an AI is available
2. One of the reasons (apparently 99% of whiners, carpers and complainers) mentioned was the cost of shipment of said books...so in order to resell the game, he's trying to keep the cost down
3. Perhaps he has the board game (I don't know if they are relevant with regard to the board game...I thought I read on here they were)

There is of course a fourth
4. He could be keeping the books so he can play the game himself when it's working

I'd assume one of the first 3 before I went for 4.

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

ORIGINAL: Freychris

Actually, I've found a rather elegant solution to this. I had a friend to hot seat MWIF, and hooked up a large monitor to my laptop. During his turns, I'd watch on the laptop's screen, while he played using the large monitor. Eventually, I just hooked in a second mouse, and played my turns on the laptop, across the table form my opponent, both of us in comfortable chairs, and "immobile" for many hours![8D]

smart thinking [:)]

Yeah, As for brian's solution, I have chairs with wheels at my computer table an my wife's, but big wall-mounted flat screens are not in the list by now. [:D]

jiangzhouzi and axelnl: Yours are even better! Although I don't know if Matrix will be happy to hear this...

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

3 reasons immediately spring to mind

1. The books are such a work of art (as everyone has pointed out) and a great read that he would like to keep them...perhaps with a view to buying the game when an AI is available

2. One of the reasons (apparently 99% of whiners, carpers and complainers) mentioned was the cost of shipment of said books...so in order to resell the game, he's trying to keep the cost down
3. Perhaps he has the board game (I don't know if they are relevant with regard to the board game...I thought I read on here they were)

There is of course a fourth
4. He could be keeping the books so he can play the game himself when it's working

I'd assume one of the first 3 before I went for 4.

All my personal opinions, of course:

1. Hard to me to believe. He's selling the game, I don't think that he's planning to buy it later. If he was, it's probably smarter (and cheaper) to just upgrade from current version to newest. Thus, he could carry on playing to it solitary if he wanted until it's available.

2. In that case, I'd give the buyer the option of having or not having the books. He may sell it to someone living in the same city, for example, with no extra delivery costs.

3. If he has the board game, he probably has the original manuals. As some people say, rules are not 100% the same as with MWiF. Still, can be useful.

They all may be possible. I'd say that he may not be interested in playing online, and with solitary is enough for him (and thus keeping the books), and being honest enough not to mess around with the S/N and NetPlay.

Anyway, I want the books, and I want to be sure that no problems in the future with NetPlay. But, if you don't want the printed manuals or play NetPlay... it may be a good opportunity.