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CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:00 am
by joshuamnave
According to the Player's Manual Vol II, sec 9.2.15, p. 143, "That a carrier air unit is on a carrier is shown by being positioned directly above the carrier in a stack or in a list."
Unfortunately, that isn't true, and it's not easy to tell at a glance which planes are on which carriers when looking at the form. Could the form layouts be fixed to conform with the player's manual (or at least to make it easier to tell at a glance which planes are on which carriers)? Among other things, this would make it much easier to rearrange/rebase carrier air when CVP classes change at the start of a new year.
Here's a picture demonstrating the current situation. As you can see, the class 3 plane is loaded on the Ark Royal, but is not shown directly above it in the form.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:07 am
by paulderynck
Might be better viewed with the Naval Review Details?
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:25 am
by michaelbaldur
it is easy enough to see on your picture ..
but when you have many carriers, it can be confusing.
but there are no easy solution.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:17 am
by joshuamnave
ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur
it is easy enough to see on your picture ..
but when you have many carriers, it can be confusing.
but there are no easy solution.
Yes, there is an easy solution. List the CVP's right before the CV they are loaded onto, just like the players manual says.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:17 pm
by paulderynck
Naval Review Details seems to work well for this purpose.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:24 pm
by joshuamnave
Great, but I rarely use that form and I still see no reason why the other forms should use a different format. Not only is it not what the player's manual says, it actually makes it *more* confusing if two different forms are arranging the units two different ways.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:29 pm
by paulderynck
Different tools work better for different jobs. You can continuously try hammering a nail with a wrench and ask why they don't design wrenches better for hammering nails, or you can get into the habit of reaching for the hammer.
Edit: Sorry I'm not trying to demean your reply. Consider that a parable. I've found that the different forms are better for different tasks. FREX if left click on a stack of naval units you get the version of the NRD shown below and I often find that's what I do when I'm checking what will move. The picture you showed is from the original CWiF design. The NRD is something Steve added because of the original lack of function.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:43 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Zartacla
According to the Player's Manual Vol II, sec 9.2.15, p. 143, "That a carrier air unit is on a carrier is shown by being positioned directly above the carrier in a stack or in a list."
Unfortunately, that isn't true, and it's not easy to tell at a glance which planes are on which carriers when looking at the form. Could the form layouts be fixed to conform with the player's manual (or at least to make it easier to tell at a glance which planes are on which carriers)? Among other things, this would make it much easier to rearrange/rebase carrier air when CVP classes change at the start of a new year.
Here's a picture demonstrating the current situation. As you can see, the class 3 plane is loaded on the Ark Royal, but is not shown directly above it in the form.
What form is this?
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:50 pm
by paulderynck
I think it's Flyout or Units in Hex combined with a chunk of the Main Form.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:03 pm
by joshuamnave
I don't know the technical name of the form. It's the form you get when you ctrl left click on a stack of naval units in port. It's the form I most often use when moving ships in a port that contains more than 9 units (ie... more than will fit on 1 page of a flyout)
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:12 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Zartacla
I don't know the technical name of the form. It's the form you get when you ctrl left click on a stack of naval units in port. It's the form I most often use when moving ships in a port that contains more than 9 units (ie... more than will fit on 1 page of a flyout)
The titles for the forms are in the upper left corner of each form (might be missing from the Flyouts to save space).
What you are referring to is the Select Units form. I'll take a look at that code for how the unit list is sorted.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 am
by Shannon V. OKeets
Better?
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:47 am
by joshuamnave
It's a million times better in the sense that it is much easier to see at a glance which plane belongs to which carrier. And if it stops there, I'll be happy. That said, it's still 180 degrees backward from what the player's manual says, which is that the planes are shown above the carrier they are assigned to, while your screenshot shows them below. For me, either way will work just fine and this is a huge improvement, but for new players trying to use the books to figure it all out, it would help to have the forms match the book.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:50 am
by joshuamnave
Looking at that form a second time... supply subs? Aren't those part of the convoys in flames optional rule? Does this screenshot mean we're close to getting that one added?
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:07 am
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Zartacla
It's a million times better in the sense that it is much easier to see at a glance which plane belongs to which carrier. And if it stops there, I'll be happy. That said, it's still 180 degrees backward from what the player's manual says, which is that the planes are shown above the carrier they are assigned to, while your screenshot shows them below. For me, either way will work just fine and this is a huge improvement, but for new players trying to use the books to figure it all out, it would help to have the forms match the book.
warspite1
I agree with Zartacla - if its not a ball ache to re-do Steve, I too would prefer it the other way around as a) its in line with the manual, and b) intuitively the aircraft should be
aboard the carrier plane.
How does this look if there are two aircraft aboard say only one carrier?
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:44 am
by Centuur
ORIGINAL: Zartacla
Looking at that form a second time... supply subs? Aren't those part of the convoys in flames optional rule? Does this screenshot mean we're close to getting that one added?
Bug hunting and netplay have top priority and will have so for a while at this moment, I believe.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:06 pm
by WarHunter
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Naval Review Details seems to work well for this purpose.
+1
This is the only form i find useful to check what planes are on what carrier. That and making notes on a separate notepad.
RE: CVP forms/flyouts
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:08 am
by paulderynck
Yes I fear that the Select Units form will have trouble when 2 CVPs per CV are in play.