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Here are a few more things I figured I should bring up:

1. I just realized In the 3rd herd scenario the M150 is being used as the anti tank weapon system used at battalion level by the US.

This system was pretty much phased out in the early 80's and replaced by the M901. There may have been a few in the National guard still,
but for those units in USAREUR and all the active heavy divisions, it was the M901.

2. I also mentioned earlier that the OH-58's that operated with Apaches or Cobras by 1988 were all OH-58C's and not the A models. The only A's left in inventory were used as trainers at flight school. By the way, some C models at that time were being equipped with the air to air stinger.

The OH-58D's at that time were used in units by themselves and were unarmed at the time.

3. Effective ranges on the US weapons spreadsheet:

a. M61A1 20mm cannon (used on the Cobra) has an effective range of 2000m not 528. API ammo was only good out to 1500 against BMP's, but softer targets
like trucks and personnel were dead meat. The gun was highly accurate out to that range and we trained to hit moving targets at those ranges while we ourselves
were moving. Laser range finders along with Fire Control Computers work wonders:)

b. Hydra 70 FFAR's had a max range out to around 11,000 meters and an effective range to 6000m and that's only because our Fire Control computers wouldn't take
inputs beyond 6k's. It took a lot of practice to get them out to 6k's accurately but between 3 and 4 k's even average pilots could put them on target.

c. On the TOW missiles, they have a minimum range of 500m. The reason is it took the sight system a few seconds to pick up the missile and guide it to the target.
By the time it did, the missile had flown several hundred meters.

On a side note, we could extend the range of the TOW by flying towards the target while the missile is in flight. At 120kias, I could launch the missile at 5000m from
the target and have impact when I am still 3500m from the target. I could then break off and be out of the range of most AA fire.

4. Info on the AH-1's: In 1983 the US Army had the AH-1S (this variant was considered the fully modernized version). It had the 20mm cannon, Tow and 2.75" rocket launchers. It also had an advanced rocket management system with a head's up display, a laser range finder, fire control computer, radar detection, radar jamming equipment (AN-ALQ 144), and IR suppression equipped. We could mount flares and chaff also. We could also be equipped with an Airborne Laser Tracker for guiding in munitions from other platforms. I only flew with those on my last assignment in Germany between 88-90.

The AH-1 ECAS model had the same weapons but not the FCC nor advanced rocket system as the S model had nor the radar jamming or IR suppression gear nor the ALT.

We also had a AH-1 Mod S variant that was similar to the ECAS but in lieu of the 20mm had a turret that had a 7.62mm minigun and a 40mm auto grenade launcher. By 1985 all of the Mod S's were gone.

The Q model you have listed was out of the inventory by 1980.

Around 1986, the Army redesignated the nomenclature of the AH-1 fleet. The AH-1 ECAS became the AH-1E and the AH-1S became the AH-1F. So after 86, there were no more of the former.

Just so you know by 88 there were no ECAS models in Europe, they were all AH-1F's. I was surprised when I showed up to the 101st again in 94 and saw a couple ECAS on the flightline,
but they were hanger queens at the time and getting ready to be turned in.

5. When I was an 11B back in the 82nd in the 70's, I qualified on a weapon called the M202 Flash. I happened to see it listed as an anti-tank weapon. It was a 4 shot 66mm shoulder
fired weapon similar to the M72 Law. The difference was that the warheads were filled with a napalm type substance that when upon impact would burst into flame. it had a point target
range of around 200m but an area target range of 800m. While you could use it on a tank it was mostly an anti-personnel weapon against dug in positions. It was also semi-automatic and a fun weapon to use

I don't see any air assets in the Divisional armored cav squadron. We had 2 air troops each of 6 OH-58C's and 4 AH-1F's along with 2 UH-1H's assigned to Squadron Hq.

There were only 2 ground troops at that time of 19 M3A2's. Six in each of 3 platoons plus 1 in Troop Hq. They also had a platoon of 3 mortar tracks per ground troop. No tanks at all in the Squadron.

A tank company was usually attached to the Squadron but it came out of the hide of one of the armor battalions. In the 90's this was rectified and the tanks were put back into the divisional squadrons, but during the Army of Excellence change of TO&E's that took place from 84 on, the tanks were pulled out. The ACR's had tanks in each of their troops but not in the divisional cav squadrons.


Oh...another big thing I just saw on the spreadsheet are the weapons loadouts for the AH-1F. You have it carrying 8 Tow missiles AND 38 rockets along with I suppose is a full load of 20mm.

I wish we could have carried all of that at the same time but we just couldn't. We had a weight limit. A TOW weighs around 54 pounds and a rocket, depending on type weighed about 20 lbs. 20mm was 67lbs per 100 rounds. We almost always had to trade fuel off for ammo if we went TOW heavy. Since by the time of this game, the attack battalions were pretty much all outfitted with Apaches, so they didn't have a problem, but us guys flying AH-1's did.

In the Cav, we never carried more than 4 TOW since we dropped the lower launcher racks to save weight. Our typical cav mission load out was 300 rounds of 20mm, 2 TOW's and 12 to 20 rockets. With that we could go with a full bag of gas. Every air Cav unit I was with did the same thing and I served in 5 different divisional cav units.

Sabre21,

1. Effective range is our calculation for the game engine based on the max range and weapon type and not based on listed "effective" ranges of the weapon system in specs. We've tripped up a few people with that.

2. Steve, as posted else where will mix in older equipment at times. That has been talked about elsewhere too.

3. We have OH58A in the data and looks like I lost the C and D versions. Can you get me dats of serve for the C and D and I'll fix the data. Also if you have a listing of the AH-1s loadouts (and dates used if something odd is used) I'll update the main game files and user file for the 2.04 release. Just email me at capn.darwin@windstream.net with any issues you see I will make the corrections.

I'll look over the points more this evening. Thanks for posting! [&o]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Sabre21,

1. Effective range is our calculation for the game engine based on the max range and weapon type and not based on listed "effective" ranges of the weapon system in specs. We've tripped up a few people with that.

2. Steve, as posted else where will mix in older equipment at times. That has been talked about elsewhere too.

3. We have OH58A in the data and looks like I lost the C and D versions. Can you get me dats of serve for the C and D and I'll fix the data. Also if you have a listing of the AH-1s loadouts (and dates used if something odd is used) I'll update the main game files and user file for the 2.04 release. Just email me at capn.darwin@windstream.net with any issues you see I will make the corrections.

I'll look over the points more this evening. Thanks for posting! [&o]

1. I was thinking after seeing a lot of your odd in-game effective ranges that you must be using some game modifier, but when I saw some ranges like the TOW at their actual effective range threw me off some.

2. As for mixing in older equipment say for instance in a 1982-3 scenario using M150's or OH-58A wouldn't be an issue, but by 88 those systems weren't even in theatre although I wouldn't be surprised if there were some National guard units that still had them on hand.

3. We still had a few OH-58A's in 1983-84, maybe as late as 85. In 88 when I was there on my second tour, all the alpha's were gone.

I'll email what you asked for.

Looked at the data this morning and the A version is really the C. The name is wrong. With your help, we'll get it all worked out. Thanks for taking the time to impart the knowledge. We do want to be as accurate as possible.

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Looked at the data this morning and the A version is really the C. The name is wrong. With your help, we'll get it all worked out. Thanks for taking the time to impart the knowledge. We do want to be as accurate as possible.

Yep..the C pretty much had an upgraded engine and drive train, an improved tail rotor and better avionics like an RWR. Some could be armed with 2 stingers but I wouldn't use that variant until 1989.