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Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:03 am
by margeorg
Hello,
here´s another noob question: I´m currently playing a stock PBEM game as the allies, and my question is: Do US (or potentially others) combat engineers have a dual role? I.e. are they fighting troops AND engineers, that means being able to expand bases and construct fortifications etc.?
Thanks for your shared knwledge
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:50 am
by KenchiSulla
Combat engineers can build up bases and are great in combat. They provide firepower, AV + they can drop forts before the final AV calculation.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:51 am
by Yaab
Combat engineers can:
-fight
-reduce enemy fortifications
-build ports, forts, airfields and repair them
Non-combat engineers can do the same, but they have lower anti-soft/anti-hard stats which means they are very weak in combat.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:10 am
by Gaspote
ORIGINAL: Yaab
Combat engineers can:
-fight
-reduce enemy fortifications
-build ports, forts, airfields and repair them
Non-combat engineers can do the same, but they have lower anti-soft/anti-hard stats which means they are very weak in combat.
Are you sure normal engineer reduce fortifications the same ? I always thought only combat engineer could reduce fort.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:29 am
by castor troy
only combat eng reduce forts, they can do everything. Normal eng only build/repair but don't reduce forts. Like every squad they also contribute in defensive battles.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:34 am
by Yaab
Stock game, December 1941, Chinese attack Ichang:
Ground combat at Ichang (83,48)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 84156 troops, 502 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2295
Defending force 22611 troops, 223 guns, 168 vehicles, Assault Value = 817
Allied adjusted assault: 2087
Japanese adjusted defense: 876
Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 3)
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2
-------------------
The Chinese corps have standard Engineer squads in their TOE, so it seems that if such Engineers are part of infantry units they reduce forts just as combat engineers do.
The manual says otherwise (see page 195), but the game behaves differently...
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:02 am
by Itdepends
A successful attack reduces forts by a single level- if you'd had combat engineers there you would have had a chance to drop the forts 2 levels.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:04 am
by CowboyRonin
I don't think it's quite the same, Yaab. The combat engineer reduction occurs before the assault goes in; the assault reduction occurs after. The combat engineer reduction just counts engineers; the assault reduction has to get positive odds to work. I don't think you even need engineers to get the assault reduction (although it's hard to not have a few here or there)-it's just looking at a positive odds assault that didn't get through the forts.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:04 am
by Yaab
You are right. Thanks for correcting me.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:11 am
by dr.hal
As for the US Marines, they say that everyone is an infantry man first and then an engineer, cook, clerk, etc....
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:44 am
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
As for the US Marines, they say that everyone is an infantry man first and then an engineer, cook, clerk, etc....
Rifleman first. Don't ever call a Marine an "infantryman." [:)]
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:36 am
by dr.hal
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
As for the US Marines, they say that everyone is an infantry man first and then an engineer, cook, clerk, etc....
Rifleman first. Don't ever call a Marine an "infantryman." [:)]
Sorry Moose how true!
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:26 am
by margeorg
Thanks guys for all the responses!
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:57 am
by Lecivius
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
As for the US Marines, they say that everyone is an infantry man first and then an engineer, cook, clerk, etc....
Rifleman first. Don't ever call a Marine an "infantryman." [:)]
I have been known to say such things, and more. It always seems to cause an enlightened, spirited conversation
[:D]
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:29 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
As for the US Marines, they say that everyone is an infantry man first and then an engineer, cook, clerk, etc....
Rifleman first. Don't ever call a Marine an "infantryman." [:)]
You mean when the shoot their "guns?"
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:09 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
As for the US Marines, they say that everyone is an infantry man first and then an engineer, cook, clerk, etc....
Rifleman first. Don't ever call a Marine an "infantryman." [:)]
You mean when the shoot their "guns?"
"Take a lap, Sutton. You too, Denver." [:)]
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:00 am
by jmalter
hi margeorg,
Combat Engineers will function as regular engineers in the stock game you are playing.
But many mod scenarios have taken advantage of editor functions to create different kinds of engineer devices w/ varied capabilities. I'm pretty sure that the DBB-B scenario I'm playing currently does not allow Combat Engineers to build or repair.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:02 am
by jmalter
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
"Take a lap, Sutton. You too, Denver." [:)]
"This is my rifle, this is my gun.
One is for shootin', the other's for fun."
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:39 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Yaab
Stock game, December 1941, Chinese attack Ichang:
Ground combat at Ichang (83,48)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 84156 troops, 502 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2295
Defending force 22611 troops, 223 guns, 168 vehicles, Assault Value = 817
Allied adjusted assault: 2087
Japanese adjusted defense: 876
Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 3)
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2
-------------------
The Chinese corps have standard Engineer squads in their TOE, so it seems that if such Engineers are part of infantry units they reduce forts just as combat engineers do.
The manual says otherwise (see page 195), but the game behaves differently...
your 2:1 adjusted assault reduced a fort level, not engineers. If combat engineers reduce forts you will see that message further above.
RE: Noob question: Combat engineers
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:35 pm
by wdolson
Additionally when combat engineers reduce forts, you see a message saying "engineers reduce fortifications" or something along those lines. If the fort level goes down without that message, it was due to the assault itself and not engineers.
Bill