Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Also consider one was released in 2003 and this one in 2014 [:)]

ORIGINAL: jonj01

I have both. I let the time played speak for itself.
I played Advance of the Reich twice. Hated it. I absolutely love squad based battles.
I played the hell out of Steel Panthers, purchasing it 3 different times over the last two decades.

So heres the hours played.

Steel Panthers at least 1000 hours. (over 15 years)
Lock N. Load Heros of Stalingrad. at least 100 hours (over 6 weeks)
Advance of the Reich less than 10 hours (over 5 years)

It is not even close. The only gripe about LnL is the impulse system. It limits the size of fights you can model.
The gripes about Advance of the Reich are many...armor combat stupid...inf combat stupid. I have 7 other Tiller Panzer Campaign games absoluely love those games and have player at least 1000 hours on those. It is like Tiller took the Panzer Campaign engine and made the units smaller. The AI in Advance of the Reich is crap. The look totally sucks. Line of Sight mechanism in AotR forget about it doesn't exist. Variation in Terrain...not even there.
But and this is a huge but there is not enough interest in AotR to have any decent modders. Panzer Campaigns has a bunch of modders and for EVERY panzer campaign game out there (there is like 17).

If you haven't played all three LnL and AotR and played Panzer Campaigns, you wont realize how new and great LnL is. LnLHoS comes closest to being a computer, AI opponent replacement for Advance Squad Leader. And Frankly, I felt the whole squad leader system reached its apex with Squad Leader CoD. There are too many rules in ASL, you can't play that game without having your nose in a 10lb book 10% of the time played.

ORIGINAL: jonj01
Ok, maybe i was wrong about the mods. The fact is I had no problem finding mods for Panzer Campaigns..but couldn't find any for the Advance of the Reich title specifically. Given this was two years ago.

ORIGINAL: jonj01
I am absolutely right about the game engine. It is almost a duplicate from Panzer Campaigns. Panzer Campaigns is a great series. But you can't take a Regiment and Battalion level engine (sub-operational level) and superimpose it on a tactical level game.

ORIGINAL: jonj01
I'll break out my copy and give it a try again...I'll even take the time to download the mods. I'll give the whole system another 6-8 hrs of my time. But my impression from two years ago was terrible. The scenarios in the game...boring.

ORIGINAL: jonj01
The bottom line, if the Squad Battles game system was so great...why are you squad battles guys even here?

I am absolutely right about the game engine. It is almost a duplicate from Panzer Campaigns. Panzer Campaigns is a great series. But you can't take a Regiment and Battalion level engine (sub-operational level) and superimpose it on a tactical level game.

ORIGINAL: acropora

I am absolutely right about the game engine. It is almost a duplicate from Panzer Campaigns. Panzer Campaigns is a great series. But you can't take a Regiment and Battalion level engine (sub-operational level) and superimpose it on a tactical level game.

This is,in my opinion ,the main problem.Tiller use the same engine for all the game.The thing that i hate in Squad Battle is the decrease of efficiency of the units during the scenario.In Panzer battle have a sense but not in a battle of few minutes.A tank that lose efficiency in ten minutes is an absurdity.The last thing,common to all the Tiller games,is the graphics.In Panzer battle is avoided with the map mod and is better to forget the 3d,in Squad Battle don't exist a god graphics mod.
Also the sound of the arms is not good the only sound better in SB than in HoS are the voice of the leader with the proper language.

The decrease in effectiveness of units was the main reason I stopped playing the Squad Battle games. I own 2-3 of the games. I thought I read somewhere that there was a mod, or a setting that enable player to change the effectiveness los

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: acropora

I am absolutely right about the game engine. It is almost a duplicate from Panzer Campaigns. Panzer Campaigns is a great series. But you can't take a Regiment and Battalion level engine (sub-operational level) and superimpose it on a tactical level game.

This is,in my opinion ,the main problem.Tiller use the same engine for all the game.The thing that i hate in Squad Battle is the decrease of efficiency of the units during the scenario.In Panzer battle have a sense but not in a battle of few minutes.A tank that lose efficiency in ten minutes is an absurdity.The last thing,common to all the Tiller games,is the graphics.In Panzer battle is avoided with the map mod and is better to forget the 3d,in Squad Battle don't exist a god graphics mod.
Also the sound of the arms is not good the only sound better in SB than in HoS are the voice of the leader with the proper language.

The decrease in effectiveness of units was the main reason I stopped playing the Squad Battle games. I own 2-3 of the games. I thought I read somewhere that there was a mod, or a setting that enable player to change the effectiveness loss, but I never followed up on that.

Rick

ORIGINAL: z1812

ORIGINAL: jonj01
The bottom line, if the Squad Battles game system was so great...why are you squad battles guys even here?

Why so aggressive jonj01? I am sure you play games other than LnL. There are many games worth playing. Combat Mission, Flashpoint Germany, Scourge of War, JTCS, and Steel Beasts to name a few. Now HoS is also on my hard drive and I hope the series is very successful.

I am sure the developers are glad to have gamers here who play other tactical games, as they are the ones most likely to buy HoS.

This one or the Tiller squad battle advance of the reich which has small unit actions?

ORIGINAL: z1812

ORIGINAL: jonj01

I have both. I let the time played speak for itself.
I played Advance of the Reich twice. Hated it. I absolutely love squad based battles.
I played the hell out of Steel Panthers, purchasing it 3 different times over the last two decades.

So heres the hours played.

Steel Panthers at least 1000 hours. (over 15 years)
Lock N. Load Heros of Stalingrad. at least 100 hours (over 6 weeks)
Advance of the Reich less than 10 hours (over 5 years)

It is not even close. The only gripe about LnL is the impulse system. It limits the size of fights you can model.
The gripes about Advance of the Reich are many...armor combat stupid...inf combat stupid. I have 7 other Tiller Panzer Campaign games absoluely love those games and have player at least 1000 hours on those. It is like Tiller took the Panzer Campaign engine and made the units smaller. The AI in Advance of the Reich is crap. The look totally sucks. Line of Sight mechanism in AotR forget about it doesn't exist. Variation in Terrain...not even there.
But and this is a huge but there is not enough interest in AotR to have any decent modders. Panzer Campaigns has a bunch of modders and for EVERY panzer campaign game out there (there is like 17).

If you haven't played all three LnL and AotR and played Panzer Campaigns, you wont realize how new and great LnL is. LnLHoS comes closest to being a computer, AI opponent replacement for Advance Squad Leader. And Frankly, I felt the whole squad leader system reached its apex with Squad Leader CoD. There are too many rules in ASL, you can't play that game without having your nose in a 10lb book 10% of the time played.

Aside from your subjective evaluation of the game you have your facts wrong. There is a very large community that supports Advance of the Reich and other Squad Battles titles. You need only check the Blitz site to confirm this. PBEM games are played continuously and campaigns are arranged. There are ample 3rd party mods and scenarios. Visit the site below to see for yourself.

http://tfe4.wordpress.com/

The Squad Battles titles have been around for a very long time because many wargamers like them. The game has been supported, and new mods, updates and scenarios consistently provided. I can only hope the same happens for Lock n Load.

We all have the right to express an opinion but we should also acknowledge a responsibility to the facts.