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Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:00 pm
by Ron Saueracker
Hi all. Diddling about for lack of anything better to do and have reached Jan 1 45 in a h2h game with myself. Do the changes to USN cv groups work as designed or is there an issue? Suddenly my CV VF groups have added a VFB group/cv which adds 36 F4U, halves the VB consist and halves the original VF consist. This has left the CVs way over loaded with a/c in reserve and the AVB groups 18 of 36 a/c with no pilots. I'm assuming it works, just want some assurance that it will and I won't be stuck trying to manually untangle spaghetti.[8D]
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:00 pm
by witpqs
What version are you running? I think MichaelM made a fix some time back to the air group re-size code.
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:52 pm
by wdolson
When groups resize, if they shrink, the extra planes go into reserve. I don't know if those extra planes go into the pool after a while or not, but you can manually move the extra planes from reserve to the pool.
Bill
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:04 pm
by jmalter
I'm playing against the IJN AI w/ a DBBlite scen#26. The CAG auto-resize was a prob, I had to manually adjust the airgroup sizes & grab some pilots, which AFAIK can only be done at a friendly port, tho' reducing the # of reserve planes & extra pilots can be done at sea.
Your resizes must be tailored to your game's situation, but here's my typical arrangement for a 90-plane USN CV:
- 24 F6F for local CAP
- 24 F4U for strike escort
- 24 SB2C-4 for naval strike & search
- 18 TBM-3 for naval strike & ASW
each group carries 3 add'l reserve planes.
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:56 pm
by msieving1
ORIGINAL: jmalter
I'm playing against the IJN AI w/ a DBBlite scen#26. The CAG auto-resize was a prob, I had to manually adjust the airgroup sizes & grab some pilots, which AFAIK can only be done at a friendly port, tho' reducing the # of reserve planes & extra pilots can be done at sea.
Your resizes must be tailored to your game's situation, but here's my typical arrangement for a 90-plane USN CV:
- 24 F6F for local CAP
- 24 F4U for strike escort
- 24 SB2C-4 for naval strike & search
- 18 TBM-3 for naval strike & ASW
each group carries 3 add'l reserve planes.
Real life air complement on Essex class carriers in 1945 was generally
36 VF (F6F Hellcats)
36 VBF (F6F or F4U Corsairs)
15 VB (SB2C Helldivers)
15 VT (TBM Avengers)
plus one plane for the CAG, usually either a fighter or torpedo bomber, for a total of 103 aircraft.
Remember, carriers can operate with up to 115% of capacity, so an Essex class with a nominal capacity of 90 planes can operate up to 103 planes.
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:20 am
by crsutton
Works fine, The hellcats and corsairs carry a bigger bomb load than the SBDs and if you train them up they are just as effective.
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:47 am
by jmalter
ORIGINAL: msieving1
Remember, carriers can operate with up to 115% of capacity, so an Essex class with a nominal capacity of 90 planes can operate up to 103 planes.
I used to load my CVs at ~110% capacity, but got caught several times when the already-orange capacity got driven into the red - apparently the cap-color is calculated from operable + damaged + maintenance planes (reserves don't count).
When red, the CV airgroups can't fly, so I had to run away fast, which was usually quite inconvenient!
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:01 am
by jmalter
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Works fine, The hellcats and corsairs carry a bigger bomb load than the SBDs and if you train them up they are just as effective.
Hmm, I've never tried this - do you train them for NavB or GrdB? I could see using them against ground targets if enemy CAP is minimal, but if I want to kill ships, I want DBs - specifically the SB2C-4 Helldiver (w/ the search radar), w/ TBM-3 TBs to get the occasional hit on a tough target such as a BB or CA. And I want those DBs & TBs to have plenty of Corsair escorts.
I usually cross-train the fighters for sweep at 100' alt, for when I need to attack enemy MTBs. 100' Naval strikes w/ fighters are the only thing I've found that will attack torpedo-boats.
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:23 am
by wdolson
By mid-1944 F6F were frequently used in the fighter bomber role, including against shipping.
Bill
RE: Babes Lite USN 1945 CV Air Group resizing ??
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:50 pm
by jmalter
hi Bill,
I understand the historical use, but how effective are they against shipping in the game, compared to dive-bombers?
I had no small number of USA 70+ exp/air/def-skill fighter pilots well-trained for GrdB, but they all got used when the USA bomber sqns were up-sized in early '44, and have barely enough USN NavB/GrdB-trained pilots to keep my DB groups filled out.