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Crazy Vichy bug

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:24 pm
by joshuamnave
The situation:

When Germany declared Vichy, the French fleet was sitting in Oran with a French ground unit. Algeria was conquered by Italy, but Oran stayed in French control because of the ground unit there. When Vichy was established, Oran switched to German control. The dice were unkind to the Allies, and everything but the Pacific territories went Vichy, so there was no new French home country. France was therefore completely conquered. As a result the French fleet in Oran went to British control (not sure if that's correct, but that's what happened). The French unit in Oran was removed from the game and Oran switched to German control. Because this happened in the end of turn phase (Vichy control) there was no immediate overrun/regression.

The next turn started with the Allies getting the initiative. The CW took a naval action and, among other things, moved the fleet from Oran into the western med where it participated in a naval search (no combat was initiated). The British finished their naval moves. The Russians, who had taken a combined, railed Zhukov up near Leningrad, and then started their land moves. When I picked up a Russian ground unit to move it, suddenly the naval overrun regression window opened up and asked me to move the now British fleet that had been in Oran (and was now in the Med). I was able to move it to Gibraltar, so the game was able to proceed, but it's still a crazy little bug.

This isn't the only bug of its type. Frequently when a transport or a CV is damaged in naval combat, the game will continue and at some point in the next phase or two, suddenly it will pop up the message that the ship's cargo will be available as a reinforcement on the following turn. It never seemed worth mentioning before, because it had no impact on the game other than to be odd timing.

Here's the save file for my game. It's in the establish country control part of the Vichy phase, in case the bug is introduced there. I'll post a save from the start of the allied naval move, with the CW fleet illegally occupying Oran in the following post.


RE: Crazy Vichy bug

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:25 pm
by joshuamnave
And here's the save from the start of the Allied naval move

RE: Crazy Vichy bug

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:03 am
by joshuamnave
Further oddness - in that same game, the French territories that had been conquered by Italy prior to the fall of France remain under Italian control, but the territorials are in the German pool and are built by Germany.

RE: Crazy Vichy bug

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:11 am
by AxelNL
Good and clear description in these posts. As these are not game-blocking they will be grouped with the functional group "Vichy" and if you have a savegame with the transporter bug that one with the group "TRS problems". The latter is of interest by me, as I have had savegame problems with corruption due to transported units who are thinking they are TRS's themselves. Root cause is very probably my fumbling in the TRS load proces, but I would like that cleared as well.

I personnally think it will take a couple of months before these groups are to be taken on. First finishing the supply release (looks like the regression bug I mentioned earlier was a well-hidden existing bug in conquest randomly causing problems in other places, laid bare by the changes. It looks to be solved a couple of hours ago). Than production, naval combat. and as is discussed in another part probably Barbarossa Netplay before other groups are taken on.

RE: Crazy Vichy bug

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:25 pm
by Centuur
ORIGINAL: Zartacla

The situation:

When Germany declared Vichy, the French fleet was sitting in Oran with a French ground unit. Algeria was conquered by Italy, but Oran stayed in French control because of the ground unit there. When Vichy was established, Oran switched to German control. The dice were unkind to the Allies, and everything but the Pacific territories went Vichy, so there was no new French home country. France was therefore completely conquered. As a result the French fleet in Oran went to British control (not sure if that's correct, but that's what happened). The French unit in Oran was removed from the game and Oran switched to German control. Because this happened in the end of turn phase (Vichy control) there was no immediate overrun/regression.

The next turn started with the Allies getting the initiative. The CW took a naval action and, among other things, moved the fleet from Oran into the western med where it participated in a naval search (no combat was initiated). The British finished their naval moves. The Russians, who had taken a combined, railed Zhukov up near Leningrad, and then started their land moves. When I picked up a Russian ground unit to move it, suddenly the naval overrun regression window opened up and asked me to move the now British fleet that had been in Oran (and was now in the Med). I was able to move it to Gibraltar, so the game was able to proceed, but it's still a crazy little bug.

This isn't the only bug of its type. Frequently when a transport or a CV is damaged in naval combat, the game will continue and at some point in the next phase or two, suddenly it will pop up the message that the ship's cargo will be available as a reinforcement on the following turn. It never seemed worth mentioning before, because it had no impact on the game other than to be odd timing.

Here's the save file for my game. It's in the establish country control part of the Vichy phase, in case the bug is introduced there. I'll post a save from the start of the allied naval move, with the CW fleet illegally occupying Oran in the following post.


Let's look at RAW for Vichy creation. Algeria is conquered by the Axis, however a French unit still controls oran. Here is RAW for conquered Axis countries:

French territories and minor countries already conquered by the Axis
remain conquered by them.


And

Each hex France controls in a territory or home country controlled by
another major power or minor country reverts to the control of:
(a) the major power occupying the hex (if any); or if none
(b) that other major power or minor country.


So here's the first bug. Italy controls Algeria. However, the major power which occupies the hex of Oran is France (there are French units in the hex). Algeria becomes Vichy. Vichy should therefore keep possession of Oran and the Fleet sitting there. All other hexes in Algeria in French control will become Italian, except if there is a French unit in it. Than the hex becomes Vichy...

That's what should have happened. So no French fleet for the CW...

RE: Crazy Vichy bug

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:05 pm
by paulderynck
Edit - I disagree that Vichy would control Oran, but the effect here should have been almost the same as if it had. 17.1 says "French territories and minor countries already conquered by the Axis remain conquered by them." The units in Oran should have been relocated by the axis player as per 17.3. They'd end up in a Vichy hex and should have become Vichy.

The only naval units that could have gone to the CW are ones that would have been located in a port in a Territory that went Free French per the control rolls.