Fighter Combat
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:38 pm
I'm curious as to what you all think about the fighter-to-fighter combat in v2.0 of UV.
As it stands right now, CAP or fighter-to-fighter combat is almost insignificant. For example, I had 40 Zeros tangle with 3 unescorted Dauntless bombers, and not only did these 3 American planes squeak by the Zeros, they even scored a hit on an IJN ship.
In most of the air-air combat I have seen, there are almost no losses (or there might be one or two damaged or destroyed planes) to either the Americans or Japanese, even when 20 Zeros tangle with 3 Aircobras.
In v2.0, it seems that AA is far more to be feared than other fighters. If that is the case, then why even escort bombers at all?
Like many of you, I have read a lot about the Pacific War, and in that reading, I have come across many air battles where fighters (from both sides) played a significant role against enemy fighters and bombers. How else did fighter pilots become ACES?
Here are just a couple of examples about historic air battles from the campaign for Guadalcanal:
1) The next raid on January 27th, to continue the feint, was the responsibility of the Japanese Army's 6th Air Division. Nine "Lily" twin-engined light bombers shepherded by no less than 74 Ki-43 "Oscar" fighters took to the air in the northern Solomons. These planes were preceded by 2 Ki-46 "Dinah" reconnaissance planes which hopefully would be able to give an accurate picture of the day's activities. 28 American planes rose to meet the challenge and the two fighter groups met over the Lunga area.
The battle continued as the "Oscars" had to fight off the Americans until they were half-way home. One American plane did run out of gas and 4 were lost with 2 damaged beyond repair. The Japanese lost 6 fighter planes but while the fighters battled, the bombers dumped their bombs on the American positions along the coast but there was little damage. The Japanese postponed the third raid, slated for the 29th, recognizing that the air superiority campaign had not materialized.
2) Aboard the Chicago, the crew watched as if witnessing their own execution as eleven Bettys bore in from just forward of the starboard beam. Two Wildcats, after pushing their speed to the limits, arrived from the Enterprise and tried to intercept the Bettys as they made their run. Japanese pilots and the crews of the bombers watched as the Wildcats bore in and saw three of their number burst into flames and plow into the sea. They had been witness to the bomber that had caught fire and then turned to center its attack on the LaVallette.
Two more Bettys were hit by antiaircraft fire and were downed. As the remaining Bettys emerged from the far side of the ship formation, the Wildcats flamed another pair. The four remaining Bettys turned to limp back to base, three with only one engine. But five torpedoes were off and running with their wakes pointing toward the Chicago.
The Japanese losses for their involvement were nine of the twelve Bettys, a staggering loss.
3) February 1st was to be a red letter day in the annals of Guadalcanal. This was the day for the first run of the evacuation operation. Of course the Americans didn't know this but, they did know something was up and did know something had to be done. So they started the day with a flight of five B-17s with fighter escort raining down bombs on the Japanese base in the northern Solomons. The flight fended off five zeros and managed to head south undamaged but their bombs had accomplished little. But an angered bunch of pilots, 43 Zeros in all, lifted off just in time to run into four B-17s arriving without escort. Three of the B-17s were shot down in a hurry without much to show for their efforts. Additional air activities were in evidence the rest of the day with both sides slugging it out.
4) Did all of this activity have any effect on plans for the first run of rescue destroyers? It did not and the first run commenced on time at 1130 with twenty destroyers in two columns speeding down the slot. Coast Watchers sighted the destroyers at 1320 as they steamed by Vella LaVella. Henderson Field quickly put 92 planes in the air in two groups. The first group of 51 planes managed to sink one destroyer and down 7 of the 18 defending Zeros at a cost 4 planes and 2 damaged beyond repair.
The second group of 41 planes claimed two bomb hits and 10 Zeros with no losses. The remaining destroyers pushed on to face the next hurdle, the 11 PT Boats waiting off shore at Savo Island. Behind the PTs were the remaining three destroyers of Captain Briscoe's Cactus Strike force, Desron 21.
The above accounts were taken from:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ernieh1/PartThree.html
Also about the Wildcat:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/f4f.htm
As it stands right now, CAP or fighter-to-fighter combat is almost insignificant. For example, I had 40 Zeros tangle with 3 unescorted Dauntless bombers, and not only did these 3 American planes squeak by the Zeros, they even scored a hit on an IJN ship.
In most of the air-air combat I have seen, there are almost no losses (or there might be one or two damaged or destroyed planes) to either the Americans or Japanese, even when 20 Zeros tangle with 3 Aircobras.
In v2.0, it seems that AA is far more to be feared than other fighters. If that is the case, then why even escort bombers at all?
Like many of you, I have read a lot about the Pacific War, and in that reading, I have come across many air battles where fighters (from both sides) played a significant role against enemy fighters and bombers. How else did fighter pilots become ACES?
Here are just a couple of examples about historic air battles from the campaign for Guadalcanal:
1) The next raid on January 27th, to continue the feint, was the responsibility of the Japanese Army's 6th Air Division. Nine "Lily" twin-engined light bombers shepherded by no less than 74 Ki-43 "Oscar" fighters took to the air in the northern Solomons. These planes were preceded by 2 Ki-46 "Dinah" reconnaissance planes which hopefully would be able to give an accurate picture of the day's activities. 28 American planes rose to meet the challenge and the two fighter groups met over the Lunga area.
The battle continued as the "Oscars" had to fight off the Americans until they were half-way home. One American plane did run out of gas and 4 were lost with 2 damaged beyond repair. The Japanese lost 6 fighter planes but while the fighters battled, the bombers dumped their bombs on the American positions along the coast but there was little damage. The Japanese postponed the third raid, slated for the 29th, recognizing that the air superiority campaign had not materialized.
2) Aboard the Chicago, the crew watched as if witnessing their own execution as eleven Bettys bore in from just forward of the starboard beam. Two Wildcats, after pushing their speed to the limits, arrived from the Enterprise and tried to intercept the Bettys as they made their run. Japanese pilots and the crews of the bombers watched as the Wildcats bore in and saw three of their number burst into flames and plow into the sea. They had been witness to the bomber that had caught fire and then turned to center its attack on the LaVallette.
Two more Bettys were hit by antiaircraft fire and were downed. As the remaining Bettys emerged from the far side of the ship formation, the Wildcats flamed another pair. The four remaining Bettys turned to limp back to base, three with only one engine. But five torpedoes were off and running with their wakes pointing toward the Chicago.
The Japanese losses for their involvement were nine of the twelve Bettys, a staggering loss.
3) February 1st was to be a red letter day in the annals of Guadalcanal. This was the day for the first run of the evacuation operation. Of course the Americans didn't know this but, they did know something was up and did know something had to be done. So they started the day with a flight of five B-17s with fighter escort raining down bombs on the Japanese base in the northern Solomons. The flight fended off five zeros and managed to head south undamaged but their bombs had accomplished little. But an angered bunch of pilots, 43 Zeros in all, lifted off just in time to run into four B-17s arriving without escort. Three of the B-17s were shot down in a hurry without much to show for their efforts. Additional air activities were in evidence the rest of the day with both sides slugging it out.
4) Did all of this activity have any effect on plans for the first run of rescue destroyers? It did not and the first run commenced on time at 1130 with twenty destroyers in two columns speeding down the slot. Coast Watchers sighted the destroyers at 1320 as they steamed by Vella LaVella. Henderson Field quickly put 92 planes in the air in two groups. The first group of 51 planes managed to sink one destroyer and down 7 of the 18 defending Zeros at a cost 4 planes and 2 damaged beyond repair.
The second group of 41 planes claimed two bomb hits and 10 Zeros with no losses. The remaining destroyers pushed on to face the next hurdle, the 11 PT Boats waiting off shore at Savo Island. Behind the PTs were the remaining three destroyers of Captain Briscoe's Cactus Strike force, Desron 21.
The above accounts were taken from:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ernieh1/PartThree.html
Also about the Wildcat:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/f4f.htm
) but I did notice that the tendancy for small unescorted flights of bombers to slip in virtually scott free seemed to happen alot more than previously. It also seemed like fighter vs fighter was a bit more indecisive too. maybe it was just the effect of the slowing of the pace a bit with the extra msg's now displayed. Cant say for sure....need to observe it and play with it some more to see.
), but when the japs fly in against one of transort TFs, it seems like I don't do nearly as well. Could just be a random thing, however, since I haven't had that many naval attacks against PM.